Shotguns?

Here is a M97 I just picked up and I can tell you I would not want to be on the receiving end of it ,


During WW1 Germans attacked a trench full of Tommys armed with the 97, it wasnt pretty.The only reason I remember this story is because the Germans cried foul on the use of trench guns.

Yeah, the Poms should’ve stuck to nicer weapons, like mustard gas. :wink:

I agree, traumatically dissolving lung tissue is far kinder than than loads of 00 buck.

Funny story, well not neccesarily, the inventor of Zyclon B was a Jew. His wife killed herself because she didn’t agree with his job - the creation of Nerve Gas to kill people.

Full story here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haber

Was Zyklon originally an insecticide,(neuro-toxin) then turned to the use for which it is infamous? seem to remember some such.

Yes, it was used to kill rats on ships :expressionless:

And houses…

IIRC, the Marines had some problems with the shells for their Model 97 shotguns during the First World War. The paper cased shells tended to swell when exposed for prolonged periods to humidity. This in turn led to feeding problems. I think that the problem was resolved after brass cased shells eventually became available.


Dragon’s Breath
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon’s_Breath

A Dragon’s Breath usually refers to a zirconium-based pyrotechnic shotgun round. When the round is fired, a gout of flame erupts from the gun’s barrel (up to 30 ft).

While it has few tactical uses, the visual effect it produces is impressive, similar to that of a short-ranged flamethrower. The pyrotechnic shell is expensive compared to other shells.

It cannot be used in a semi-automatic shotgun, because it is a very low-power round: it does not produce enough recoil energy to cycle the next shot, causing the weapon to jam. An additional reason for use only in a single-action weapon is the fact that the round shoots flame for 3-5 seconds: this would cause a hazard if a shell still emitting flame were to be ejected from an automatic shotgun’

Dragon’s Breath rounds are banned in many locations, due to their inherent fire hazard.

Ummm… wrong world war. Haber came up with the use of Chlorine gas as an attempt to break the stalemate on the Western front during WW1. Zyklon B releases Cyanide gas (blood agent, not nerve agent) and was invented between the wars, IIRC not by Haber (IG Farben maybe?).

In the first half of the 19th Century the US Army issued a load for the muzzle loading muskets often refered to as "Buck and Ball. Wraped with the musket ball and powder in the cartridge paper were a few 00 buck shot sized pellets. This was prefered for fighting in forrests or the dense grass & brush swamps of Florida. I suspose it would be usefull for riot control as well.

Earlier in the 18th Century there were still shorter barrel ‘blunderbuss’ type shoulder arms available onboard ships.

Since the 1960s there has been a ‘shotgun’ type cartidge made for the 40mm M79 and M203 series of grenade launchers.

At the larger scale there were the flechette or “Beehive” rounds for the 105mm howitzers. A modern version of the old ‘grapeshot’ of the smoothbore howitzers.

I believe that these shotguns like the M97 were more common with the marines in close combat in the Pacific Theatre. I am not sure with much more information then this, but i should probably research it more.

My choice in shotguns
Combat:Bennelli M4 semi automatic shotgun

Hunting:another nice benelli with single or double barel

Jackhammer Pancor autoshotgun for the biggest animals :slight_smile:

did the Germans use Shotguns?

did the Germans use Shotguns?

The answer is simple, they didnt use shotguns in military roles.

the united states used the model 1897 trench gun mostly in the pacific

There were variants of the M1942 made for trench warfare, including flattening the muzzle of the weapon slightly, spreading the shot in a flattened pattern.
These were referred to as “duckbill shotguns”.

The only “duckbill” shotguns I have heard of were some of the modified Ithaca Model 37s used by U.S. Navy SEALs in Vietnam.

The vast majority of shotguns issued during World War II were Winchester Model 1897 and the Winchester Model 12. The only M1942 I am familiar with is the M1942 Bayonet for the M1 Garand

I own a duckbill shotgun, a Mossberg 500, (and therefore obviously post-war.)
It’s an interesting item though useful only for hinge removal and room clearance.
The only other one I’ve seen in private hands is also a 500, and as near as damnit identical.

Yep, that’s about what I figured.
Although there were other items of kit produced with the moniker ‘M1942,’ eg. the Liberator, as far as I’m aware there were no shotguns called that.

Is that Mossberg an issued combat shotgun or was it a civilian mod? I know the Mossberg was approved for military use but I have never heard of one in a duckbill configuration, just curious.