A Successful Japanese Atomic Bomb Test?

World War II Japanese Military
#41

Speaking of Tatsusaburo Suzuki, I’d like to share an interesting story.

In 1997, my friend and colleague in Tokyo, a Japanese-American and WWII veteran, visited a chemical school associated with the Japan National Army Defense Agency (Army). He requested and obtained permission to go through documents that might shed new light on Japan’s atomic program. There, he found an article written in 1963 by Tatsusaburo Suzuki, who by that time was a Brigadier General. He explained how Ni-go began, how it ended, and everything in-between. There are no huge revelations – any that I am at liberty to share, anyway – but Suzuki’s account contains some interesting, never-before-revealed, details. The Chemical School wouldn’t permit photo copies, so my friend had to transcribe each page by hand. And later, he typed it up.

In 1997, he sent a copy to his friend Arnold Kramish (the author of Atomic Energy in the Soviet Union) and in November 2013, he sent me a copy. We now know that the Japanese and Soviet nuclear programs are linked by way of Konan, so this story has come full-circle.

#42

Be all that as it may, the fact remains that Japan didn’t have a working atomic weapon by August 1945 when the Americans used the only working atomic weapons then or since on enemy targets.

As with discussion in another thread about Germany supposedly having an atomic bomb or weapon in April 1945, the fact remains that in both Germany and Japan when they had their backs to the wall and were down to the level of throwing roof tiles at the Allies, they didn’t detonate their supposed atomic weapons.

The reason they didn’t detonate them is because they didn’t have anything to detonate. Whether they were days or years away from that point is irrelevant, but in Japan’s case Japan would have delayed surrender discussions longer if it thought it had the faintest chance of using an atomic weapon.

As for the supposed Japanese atomic test, read the earlier part of this thread for cogent reasons why it is nonsense.

As for the Soviet nuclear program being linked to Konan, the Soviets derived important information more from spies in America than anything gained from relatively rudimentary Japanese efforts.

#43

The claim that Japan conducted an atomic test is not nonsense for the following reason (I could go into detail for each, but I won’t). What I will say is that my information was derived from numerous sources in Japanese, Russian, Korean and English, as well as numerous archives throughout the world. And my colleagues include a Russian journalist, a Russian physicist, a Japanese physicist and an American particle physicist… to name but a few:

  1. The U.S. military didn’t believe it was nonsense. Following publication of David Snell’s article, they carried out an extensive investigation in Japan and in Korea.

  2. David Snell is a distinguished journalist.

  3. The U.S. military interviewed a Japanese chemist and a Japanese security officer from Konan even before Snell became aware of Konan.

  4. The source of Snell’s story is one of the top six scientists (chemists) who was captured and tortured by the Russians before he managed to flee to Seoul, and the head of intelligence and security at the facility. If an atomic test never happened, they are lying. How you can accuse them of lying without knowing all of the facts is beyond me.

  5. The Russians believed that Japan was carrying out some sort of nuclear research at Konan. That is why five of the six Japanese scientists were tortured and transported to Russia. If the explosion was a conventional explosive or Z-stoff, the Russians wouldn’t have cared less.

  6. No one is aware of the full extent of nuclear-related activities at Konan, during and after the war. U.S. Intelligence knows, but you don’t.

  7. No one is aware of the progress that Japanese scientists made toward the development of an atomic bomb during the war. U.S. Intelligence knows, but you don’t.

  8. No one knows the relationship between nuclear activities at Konan and nuclear activities on the Japanese mainland. The Japanese know, but you don’t.

You clearly don’t know what role spies played in the Soviet atomic program, and you also clearly believe that Soviet nuclear capability in 1945 was greater than Japanese nuclear capability in 1945. For one, did you know that Japan’s nuclear weapons program began in 1941 or 1943, and that the Soviet nuclear weapons program didn’t begin until after WWII ended? Then read the following: Szulc, Tad. “The Untold Story of How Russia ‘Got the Bomb’,” Los Angeles Times, Aug. 26, 1984, p. D1, 3.

#44

Then why did they surrender? Why didn’t they seed Japan with such bombs and use them as landmines on the Downfall invasion areas that the Japanese had quite correctly surmised? Or The Tokyo Plane?

And I am a “former CIC Agent” that dealt with nuclear details at certain points, I can tell you that Snelling was way in over his head and level of education…

And precisely who was “US Intelligence?” Which agency?

#45

By the way, Arnold Kramish was a member of the Manhattan Project.

First of all, congratulations. All Americans should be proud of the fine work the CIC has done over the years to protect the United States. The following is from a 1947 CIC report concerning Hamhung, the next town over from Hamhung (known as Konan by the Japanese):

According to a 971st Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC) report, a Soviet Intelligence training school (service unknown) was located in Hamhung in 1945. There, Korean students learned espionage and sabotage. A Soviet captain was said to be on the teaching staff. Each course was taken by 200 students. This information was obtained by two of the students who had been arrested. One was arrested in 1946. The school reportedly graduated 500 student, 300 of whom were sent to South Korea to gather information regarding U.S. troops, the political situation, and on missions involving terrorism. To qualify for admission to the school, the applicant had to be a middle school graduate, between the ages of 19 and 28 of either sex. Upon graduation, the student becomes a “collaborator” with the Soviet Intelligence organization and a propaganda agent.

First a small correction. Also, it’s Snell, not Snelling. If you are going to criticize him, at least you can spell his name right. By the way, I’m writing his biography, so I know a little about him. He was a reporter, not a scientist. He asked questions and wrote the answers down. He didn’t make the story up or add his own commentary, except (if I remember correctly) perhaps the last 2 or 3 sentences at the end of his article. Before publication, Snell discussed the story with the XXIV Corps (G-2), Col. Cecil Nist, and the Commanding General of the XXIV Corps, Lieut. Gen. John R. Hodge. According to a report by the XXIV Corps, basic atomic research began in Japan and the development of a bomb or other weapon was carried out at Konan, and the Russians grabbed some of the equipment (but I can’t tell you which parts).

Here’s a brief outline of my book, so you know where I’m coming from: http://www.my-jia.com/The_Flight_of_the_Hog_Wild/preview.htm

Now back to your question:

Which intelligence agencies investigated Japan’s atomic program at Konan? First and foremost it was the U.S. Army’s XXIV Corps G-2 based in Seoul. Then there was the 971st Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC). ALSOS (which took part in missions to demolish Germany’s nuclear program) was entirely unaware of Japan’s nuclear weapons program on Japan, let alone in Korea. They were completely clueless. The OSS, SSU, X-2 and the MIS were also involved in an investigation into Japan’s atomic program, none of which has been published to date. That’s what I’ll be writing about.

#46

Why didn’t Japan use their atomic bombs on the enemy, or on invading Soviet forces? Here’s the Readers’ Digest version. The Japanese plan was to load their atomic bombs on Kamakazi (suicide) planes against an invading U.S. fleet. But the Russians declared war on Japan on August 8th and began their invasion of northern Korea the next day. Officially, the Russians didn’t occupy Konan until late-August, but Snell said the Russians were “hours away” when the Japanese conducted their atomic test on August 12th. I haven’t been able to reconcile those two dates yet, and I may never.

Why didn’t the Japanese load other atomic bombs onto planes and attack the U.S. or the Soviet Union? Three reasons: 1) They didn’t have any more weapons available after their August 12, 1945 test 2) The device was more than likely some type of nuclear weapon but not a “bomb,” one that you could drop from a plane. 3) They simply ran out of time when the Russians invaded. So no, they didn’t have an arsenal of nuclear weapons, but they may have conducted one and only one atomic test, a test which may not have been entirely successful.

#47

You asked for U.S. intelligence agencies that investigated Japan’s atomic program. I left one out. While not technically an intelligence organization (it’s more of a quasi-police force), the Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC) was also involved.

  • Bill Streifer
#48

The question is not weather or not they could have had the Atomic Bomb back then, but rather if they could have it today! I recall reading from a very informative source not to long ago, that apparently the Japanese are building up their navy and converting their defensive ships into aggressive ships, apparently to attack China. Although I believe this to be far fetched and ludicrous, but since someone I know claims this to be a fact, then perhaps it goes on the same premise that Japan is Currently building the Atomic Bomb and we don`t know about it, and perhaps its to attack China, with all those ships Japan is converting, once again, to attack China.

#49

Well I believe that they may have had some minor problems in which held of their plans to fully use it… In which they may have never set it off at all or fact never even had one. After all they often lied and exaggerated their reports to the officials. Now on this I may be in corrected since my knowledge is little when it comes to Japanese military…

#50

The problem with that is that most types of ship are dual-purpose - only a very few (amphibious warfare and ballistic missile submarines, off the top of my head) are really single-purpose. Given their rather strained relationship with Japan, it is entirely plausible that parts of the Chinese blogosphere would interpret just about any type of ship as being offensive in nature.

So far as nuclear weapons go, Japan is definitely a threshold state - they both enrich uranium and reprocess spent fuel (all under IAEA safeguards). If they decided to build a weapon it would be pretty easy for them - they’ve got all the industry and the physics base to do so. However, doing so would also cause a domestic political firestorm to make Fukushima look like a firecracker, not to mention the effect on the wider region. The Chinese would be very angry indeed, as would the US, and the South Koreans would probably build their own nuclear weapons in response.

#51

Did Germany not send vital data to Japan before end of ww2?, What about Albert Sweizer who left Germany and went to Japan to continue with his atomic blueprint plans?

#52

Not sure, but it’s unlikely to have helped very much - the Japanese actually understood the requirements of an atomic bomb rather better than the Germans. They had calculated the critical mass of U-235 correctly for instance, which the Germans never did. The problem with the Japanese was industrial - they never had the wherewithal to build one.

#53

I understand that after the war a lot of German scientists went to America to continue with their atomic and rocket science. I wonder if they actually immigrated OR if they were arrested and forced to work in America. I saw a black and white movie once where the American public was appalled that the Nazi scientists were allowed to bring their families to USA and live like kings all because USA wanted to pick their brains to perfect the atomic bomb and make it better than the original. What happened to the Japanese scientists? Why did they or how come they were never induced to come to America to continue with their research? Makes you wonder.

#54

Didn’t we discuss this a few years ago where you stated that it’s in the Japan constitution that they are forbidden to develop nuclear armament?So how would it be easy for them? thats like saying Slavery can be reintroduced in America. Its impossible. The Americans would not allow it. STRAINED relationship with Japan. I don`t think so. Not at all. In fact China imports more from Japan than any other country in the entire world, AND Japan exports to China is Number 3 in the world. http://atlas.media.mit.edu/profile/country/chn/
So, if their relationship was so strained then why are they so interwoven in trade. If my limited knowledge on economics serves me right, then I think I remember learning that the first signs of strained relationships between 2 countries, is the economic trade agreements between the countries. As far as I can see, Japan and China have Great trade agreements and China loves Japan because it imports from them more than anyone else. Houyea!

#55

By this thinking, I guess Germany, Poland, the Baltic States, and most of Eastern Europe all have a strain-free relationship with Russia at the moment, because they have such active trade going on in the energy sector? Japan and China have a long history of “strain” between them. The pragmatics of trade don’t necessarily engender blind love, herman2. I’m sure you can think of a variety of historical issues (e.g., Comfort Women, territorial disputes, trade of rare earth elements) that have made international news in the recent past.

#56

The US did make use of defeated Japanese scientists in weapon research, just as it did of Germans. It is not as well publicized, for any number of possible reasons, including but not limited too the racism of the times. I’m not sure what you’re implying with your “wonder.” Probably one of the main reasons post-war German scientists have gotten so much attention is solely due to their role in the US Space Program and subsequent lunar landings. Individuals’ roles in weapons development are understandably kept a bit quieter, under most circumstances.

#57

Ardee why are you still a Staff Sergeant? I come back after 4 years and your still not an officer. Anyways if USA did make use of Japanese scientists then name one? I don’t know any but i know lots of German ones.Racism I wonder about. Do you really think they were racist against Japanese when/if they had knowledge beneficial to the state? I would think USA would shake hands with the devil if it meant prospering ahead.

#58

They did - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiro_Ishii

#59

WOW, that is some secret cool stuff on that link. Thx for enlightening me. Your the Bomb PDF!..(get it? the bomb?..anyways I thought it was funny)

#60

If I recall correctly, “rank” is dependent upon how many posts you make here, and I spend most of my time in the photo section. I certainly hope you don’t confuse habitual posting a lot here with other qualities like knowledge, thought, or other intangibles…?

Re Japanese scientists’ names: pdf already gave you one name. No, their names don’t spring readily to mind, which was kind of my point about when scientists are drawn into weapons research. I have read enough to know it happened, though my major interest in the ETO. And yes, racism: for years we’d been flooding propaganda into the civilian market about Tojo’s cruel little monkey-like soldiers and people – surely you can see why our use of such people might not be well publicized in the war’s aftermath?

So far as hand-shaking goes…your comment sounds almost like a moral aspersion, given the way you singled the US out. If so, it would be interesting to see your list of nations that would NOT do exactly what you suggest to get an edge in a dangerous international environment such as existed in the aftermath of the war…or perhaps any other time. Please, do try to keep the conversation serious, shall we?