Alternative Fighters for the Luftwaffe.

There was also a double version, the Me-609.

It was equpped with two DB-603a of 1750 hp, Speed 725 km/h, ceiling 11500 metres, range 1450 km, bomb load max 1000 kg.

One of the major stumbling blocks for production of the He-100 was it’s use of the same engine as the Bf-109. As the He-100 was ill suited for different aero engines without major design change, this precluded further development. Of course the obvious answer was to produce more engines, but this was beyond German industry at the time.

Regards to all
Digger

Agree completely, the lack of DB-601s was the nail in the coffin for this very fine Fighter/interceptor.

He-100D-0

Development and production of aero engines was always a problem for Germany, a situation they never truly resolved.

There is no doubt the He-100D was potentially a great fighter, but we’ll never know.

Regards to all
Digger.

The Fw 190Ds did quite well with Junker Jumos. Doesn’t seem to be a reason why the He 100 could have been developed with the same 1,770 HP Jumo 213A-1engine.

OFF-TOPIC: Twitch, welcome back and excuse my ignorance. Who is Don Gentile back in your sig?:smiley:

G’day

The He-100 was specifically designed around the DB-601, therefore any engine change would have meant a massive redesign. The other problem that effected the type was the troublesome surface evaporative cooling system.

Regards to all
Digger

The reason was simple, the fine 36 valve Jumo 213 was not available in 1938-39 time in wich the He-100D was developed.

Whats this?

G’day,

This looks like the Blohm und Voss Bv-155, possibly a V-1 or V-2 prototype, though I presume the artist has depicted a production version. So there are differences.

The Bv-155 high altitude fighter sprung from the Me-155 carrier fighter development and though it showed some promise, technical difficulties plagued the programme. Progress was slow and the V-1 prototype flew in September 1944 and the V-2 prototype flew in February 1945.

Planned maximum altitude of this fighter was to be around 55,000 feet with a top speed of 429mph.

Hope this helps.

Regards to all,
Digger.

Actually is more like the Messerschmitt P.1091 who was a Competitor for the high altitude Me-155/B&V 155 program.

http://home.wanadoo.nl/r.j.o/skyraider/mep1091a_1.htm

Thanks for that Panzerknacker, the other paintings are much clearer. I was a bit stumped by the wing configuration, so good detective work. While I am interested in German aircraft development, I don’t pay much attention to ‘drawing board developments’ as my research is concentrated on aircraft that reached at least prototype status.

Again though this development by Messerschmitt highlights the waste in German research and development. So much effort put in to programmes with little chance of success.

Regards to all,
Digger.

Indeed the Blohm & voss teams desing and the Messerchmitt technical staff fought between them to achieve this design but the results were inconclused, completely maniac aircraft, only 2 were made by B & V in Hamburg.

BV-155B (V2)

The task of this aircraft was to intercep the B-29s, a menace wich never was over the german skies.

Pic from: http://www.samoloty.ow.pl/str404.htm

I couldnt agree more. The Nazi system squandered resources by competing against each other. Goering had his projects, Himmler his and others theirs. Hitler liked to keep his underlings competing against each other and the results were, thankfully for us, terrible for the Nazis.

And if you add the excesive taste for prototipes wich seems be a german caracteristic…:roll: …wasted time and resources.


Messerschmitt Me-209.

The Me-209 was essentially a purpose-built air racer whose only real commonality with the “Bf-109” was its DB-601 engine. It won a world speed record of 756 KPH (almost 470 MPH) on 26 April 1939. Willy Messerschmitt decided to see if the racer might make a good fighter, and came up with the “Me-209V4” prototype, which performed its initial flight on 12 May 1939. The fighter prototype strongly resembled the original Me-209 air racer, but had many changes, including a new wing, taller vertical tailplane, and provision for two MG-17 guns in the cowling and an MG-FF/M Motorkanone.

An air racer is a highly specialized aircraft and is not generally suited for military use. The Me-209V4’s ground and flight handling were terrible, and successive tweaks over a year’s time did nothing but raise the aircraft’s weight until it couldn’t win an air race against an Emil, much less the improved Frederick that was in the works. Messerschmitt finally cut his losses and gave up on the idea.

The real competitor was the last evolved version of the Bf-109, the "Me-209-II", which confusingly had nothing to do with the original Me-209 racer. The “clean-sheet” Me-309 having proven a failure, Messerschmitt decided to see if the Bf-109G design could be modified to create the next-generation fighter he had wanted.
The Me-209-II had a redesigned tail; landing gear that hinged in the wings instead of the fuselage, eliminating the Bf-109’s troublesome narrow track; an uprated engine; a taller tailfin; and a DB-603 engine with an annular radiator that misleadingly suggested a radial engine. However, as design of the Me-209-II progressed, one change demanded another, and it became increasingly dissimilar to the Bf-109G.

The first prototype, the “Me-209V5”, following in number sequence of the entirely different Me-209V4 of 1939, took to the air on 3 November 1943. It was supposed to be the prototype for the “Me-209A-1” production aircraft, with an MK-108 Motorkanone and an MG-131 in each wingroot.

Cutaway Me-209 V5.

A number of experimental modification kits were developed for this prototype, including MK-108s mounted in a fairing that extended back over the top of the wing. This fit actually turned out to improve the aircraft’s flight characteristics and the idea would be used on some other aircraft designs later.
A second prototype, the “Me-209V6”, followed. It was similar to the Me-209V4 but fitted with a Jumo 213 engine with annular radiator, and MG-151/20s replacing the MG-131s in the wing roots. It was supposed to be the prototype for the “Me-209A-2” production aircraft. A third prototype, for a high-altitude fighter variant designated the “Me-209H”, was rolled out in the spring of 1944. The “Me-209HV1” featured extended wings and a DB-603E engine. The variant was supposed to be fitted with advanced turbocharged Daimler-Benz engines such as the DB-628A, but by late spring 1944 all work on the Me-209 had been abandoned, since its compatibility with existing production lines had almost completely evaporated. The RLM settled on the Focke-Wulf Ta-152H as the Reich’s high-altitude fighter.

Sources:

www.warbirdsresourcegroup.com

http://www.vectorsite.net/avbf109_3.html#m1

how about Me-328, where the military are trying to lanuch their plane from a bomber

The Me-328 suposedly was an “parasite fighter” wich shall be used to protect long range aircraft, such as the “Amerika Bombers” Ju-390, Me-264.

3 view of the Jumo 213 powered Me-209 V6.

Focke-Wulf-Tank Ta-154.

The Focke-Wulf Ta 154 Moskito was a fast German night fighter designed by Kurt Tank and produced by Focke-Wulf late in World War II. Only a few were produced and proved to have less impressive performance than the prototypes.

Kurt Tank’s team at Focke-Wulf had been working for some time on a fast attack bomber called the Ta 211, so named because it planned to use an uprated Jumo 211R engine. The plane was a high-wing twin-engine design that bears a strong resemblance to the Grumman F7F Tigercat, and was built primarily of plywood bonded with a special glue called Tego-Film. The only large-scale use of metal was in the pressurized cockpit.
In August 1942 the RLM (the German Air Ministry) asked for designs to meet a need for a dedicated night-fighter, and the competition quickly boiled down to the Heinkel He 219 and an adapted version of the Ta 211 called the Ta 154. Fifteen prototypes of each were ordered for further testing. Throughout the contest the RLM generally favored the 219 due to its better visibility and range. They also seemed to be suspicious of the 154’s wooden construction. In 1942 the Messerschmitt Me 210 should have been the only plane considered, but it was suffering terrible development problems and was ignored.

It was at about this time that the light and very fast de Havilland Mosquito, also made of wood, arrived over Germany. It quickly racked up an impressive record; in its first 600 bombing missions only 1 was shot down, compared to an average of 1 in 5 for heavy bombers. Erhard Milch personally requested a purpose-built German answer, and selected the 154. Infighting within German circles started almost immediately, because the RLM and nightfighter units still wanted the He 219. Milch took this personally, and spent the better part of the next two years trying to have the 219 killed.

Development of the Ta 154 was already well advanced, and the first prototype V1 with Jumo 211F engines flew on July 1st, 1943. It was followed by V2 with Jumo 211N engines, which was kept at the factory for handling trials. V1 was then sent to Rechlin-Lärz Airfield for fly-off testing against the 219 and the new Junkers Ju 388. There the 154 reached almost 700 km/h and easily outflew the other two planes, but they were both fully armed and included radar.

The first armed version of the Ta 154 was the V3, which also was the first to fit the Jumo 211R engines. The added weight of the guns and drag of the radar antennas slowed the plane by a full 75 km/h, although it was still somewhat faster than the 219. The rest of the 15 prototypes were then delivered as A-0 models, identical to V3. Some of these also included a raised canopy for better vision to the rear.
It quickly became clear that the Jumo 211R would not be available any time soon, if at all. Future production turned to the more powerful Jumo 213A, but this was also suffering from long delays. The 154 program spent most of the next year testing various prototypes, and sent many of the A-0’s to Erprobungskommando 154. During these tests the plane showed an alarming tendency to break its landing gear, and about half of the V series were lost this way.

By June 1944 the Jumo 213 was finally arriving in some numbers, and a small run of 154 A-1’s was completed with these engines. Just prior to delivery the only factory making Tego-Film, in Wuppertal, was bombed out, and the plywood glue had to be replaced by one that was not as strong, and was later found to react chemically with wood. In July several A-1’s crashed with wing failure due to plywood delamination. This same problem also critically affected the Heinkel He 162 Spatz, Ernst Heinkel’s “Volksjager” jet fighter program entry.
Tank halted production in August, and the RLM eventually cancelled the entire project in September (Milch had been removed by this point). In that time about 50 production versions had been completed, and a number of the A-0 pre-production planes were later modified to the production standard. Some of the planes served with NJG 3, and a few were later used as training aircraft for jet pilots.
[edit]

Specifications (Ta 154 A-1)

[ul]
[li]Crew: Two
[/li][li]Length: 12.55 m (40 ft 3 ¼ in)
[/li][li]Wingspan: 16.30 m (52 ft 5 ¼ in)
[/li][li]Height: 3.60 m (11 ft 4 in)
[/li][li]Wing area: 31.40 m² (333,68 ft²)
[/li][li]Empty weight: 6,600 kg (14,550 lb)
[/li][li]Max takeoff weight: 9,950 kg (21,935 lb)
[/li][li]Powerplant:Junkers Jumo 211N liquid-cooled V-12, 1,500 hp (1,120 kW) each [/ul]Performance
[/li]
[ul]
[li]Maximum speed: 615 km/h (404 mph)
[/li][li]Range: 1,400 km (872 miles)
[/li][li]Service ceiling: 9,500 m (31,200 ft)
[/li][li]Rate of climb: 15 m/s (2,800 ft/min)
[/li][li]Wing loading: kg/m² (lb/ft²)
[/li][li]Power/mass: kW/kg (hp/lb) [/ul]Armament
[/li]
[ul]
[li]2x 20 mm MG 151
[/li][li]2x 30 mm MK 108 nose-mounted cannons
[/li][li]2x 30 mm fuselage-mounted MK 108 cannons (Schräge Musik)[/ul]
[/li]Sources:

www.wikipedia.com

www.warbirdsresourcegroup.com

http://www.samoloty.ow.pl/rys/

Me-509.

Although the Me 509 can trace its roots back to the Me 309, very little information has survived. The aircraft was to be of an all-metal construction. A new fuselage was designed, with the pressurized cockpit being moved well forward near the nose. The Daimler Benz 605B 12-cylinder engine was buried in the fuselage behind the cockpit, and drove a three-bladed, Me P 6 reversible-pitch propeller by an extension shaft which passed beneath the cockpit (similar to the US Bell P-39). The wing was tapered and had rounded wingtips, and was mounted low on the fuselage. Other Me 309 components were to be used, such as the tricycle landing gear, and the vertical tail assembly was similar to the one used for the Me 309 V1. Armament was not decided upon for the 509, but it is thought that two MG 131 13mm machine guns and two MG 151 20mm cannon were to be used. Although there were advantages of better cockpit visibility and relocation of the engine weight from the nose gear (important, since the Me 309’s nose gear often collapsed), the Me 509 design and development was stopped when the Me 309 program was ended in mid-1943.
In April 1945, the Japanese completed a very similar project, the Yokosuka R2Y Keiun. Although no firm evidence exists, it is possible that the Me 309/509 information was licensed to the Japanese military, as were a number of other German designs (Bf 109, He 100, Me 163, Me 410, among others).
Messerschmitt Me 509 Dimensions (estimate) Span Length Height 11.27 m
37’ 0"9.94 m
32’ 7"3.98 m
13’ 1"

www.luft46.com.