Antitank Rifles & Machineguns.

This clip isnt an A.T. rifle, but interesting in any event, a small WWII Swiss A.T. gun, with a reenactor crew. (sorry no Benny Hill music in this one)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FBcNK2FTxs

Massive, nice find TankG, the size of the “Tankbuchse” isnt precisely rifle like.

So you would have to wait till the tank was giving you a side shot as 40mm I don’t think would penetrate many tanks from a frontal shot.

Mighty dangerous calling to man one of those guns!

Sherman tanks had 63mm of frontal armor. Panzer MK III had 57mm of armor. The T-34 had 45-46 mm. As we see earlier in this thread by the time WW2 started these AT guns were already ineffective so far as tanks (but I bet they could have lit up APCs, half-tracks, and trucks very well.)

Interesting thing is it seems the 20 mm AT guns could take the side shot with a chance of it working on the T-34:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&p=1368355

And other weapons that were tested on the T-34:

http://www.tank-net.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t18562.html

Deaf

Definately firing at the flat sides of the hull or turret in the panzer III/IV stug III/IV family you probably would cause serious damaga, remember that the russian PTRS PTRD 14,5 mm guns usually penetrated the 30 mm plate at 200-220 meters.

With the T-34 is other history, I be seen footage of a 50mm pak 38 apcbc round bouncing off a T-34 hull side 300 meters away so…with a 24mm round should be really difficult.

Did you see the clip of the TB-41 being “deployed” previous page, last post. Turn the sound on…

I did and I am bit deaf right now :slight_smile:

a bit of wine will restore your hearing my friend, my daughter’s man is Swiss, so I sent the clip to them. (maybe Benny hill is their favored marching music…:slight_smile: )
The Swiss military is pretty sharp, and well up to date from what I have seen of it, even though they may have the least need for an army.

A bit ackward looking soldiers or maybe just reenactors.

Those are reenactors, wearing the old style uniform & rifle. (and probably more used to lifting a glass than an A.T. gun :slight_smile: ) Those folks seem to like reenacting about anything, even the American Civil War. The Swiss border with Germany has some very creative bunker complexes, there are clips of them too.

Those reenactor need more training reenacting. :wink:

I am looking information and pictures of the czech VZ 15mm or the 15 Besa used in british tanks.

I found one pic, of the Besa 15mm, I’ll see about finding something out about it.

Besa15w.jpg

Good; I am trying to find pictures of it in german service but sucess till now.

Oerlikon SSG:

I find another big fat swiss rifle, the SSG, Schweres Selbtsladen Gewehr or heavy selfloading rifle.

Two type were made one in 1935 wich used the short 20x72rb cartrigde at 545 mps. The other variant ( m1936), by far more usable for serous antitank purposes, employed the 20x110rb cartrigde at 790mps.

The gun used the famous non-locked system of Becker-oerlikon wich fired using the mass of the advancing bolt as opposing force to close the breech ( close for miliseconds that is).

An squematic of Becker-Oerlikon advanced primer ignition system, similar to an 22 or 380 blowback pistol but with the difference of firing at open bolt.

The rifle used 5 or 10 round side feed magazines. This is the SSG 36 20x110mm

Apparently it wasnt purchased by the swiss army neither by the germans.

Nice animation PK.

Yea , It is, thank god for japanese gun sites; i cant understand a thing but they got nice drawings.:slight_smile:

It is wondering why the germans didn’t use a panzerbüchse + MG in the Panzer I, instead of two MG’s. These weapons didn’t use to much energy and space and would’ve given the panzer at least some battle value against enemy light tanks.

Actually there was a sort of…the Panzer I with Breda 20mm automatic gun, only saw some service in spanish Civil war because was locally converted by the Nationalist no in germany.

The italian Breda used the same 20x138b ammo of the Solos S-18-1000-1100 and Flak 30/38.

The P1 was intended as a training vehicle, and a development platform to establish the parameters for production of later models. It was never intended for use in combat, though that didnt stop it from ending up there. The #1’s turret is very small, and though an A.T. rifle of some sort could have been shoehorned in, it is probable that it was better to incorporate that feature in the #2. The armor was very thin on the #1,( no more than 1/2 inch) and aside from the structural concerns of long term use of a 20x138 mm weapon, its presence on the #1 would leave it unable to protect itself from the attention that weapon would attract. Though this is only my opinion.

German panzers were underarmed when put next to their enemies with the same weight. Simple comparison tells a lot. Think of BT en T26 tanks at the time.
The II was again a little bit underarmed and the 37mm semi auto would have been the better gun. The stuborn decision to put 37mm in all what seemed to encounter enemy armor (Panzer III, halftracks, AT units) simply because the 37mm gun was available should have been stressed into the Panzer II, while giving the III the 50mm.

Attention: I get your point, yet I’s were shot up in vast numbers anyway.

I’m sure they had their reasons. Designing a tank is more than a matter of mix n’ match. Having the ability to design, manufacture, (on a large scale) and transport the thing is just the first consideration. Allocation of raw materials, production facilities, man power, truck, and rail services, all of that. And before all of that stuff there comes the committees, the meetings, from the guy who scribbled some pictures on a napkin, to materials development, not every material is sitting on a shelf waiting to be needed. What standardized parts may be used, what will be an all new component, (each also needing all of the above things) Then on to production processes, sorting out allocations for strategic materials,a stronger weapon will need stronger steel where do we find enough of it? Identifying, and reducing bottlenecks in production, it makes one’s head spin. Not to mention the mountains of paperwork, and record keeping for the record happy Reich.
One may want to field a Tiger, but the complex process to get it under a soldier’s bum is the deciding factor in most cases, leaving you with the Panzer II. This outline is very simple, the actual process is immensely more complex.