Argentina's claim on the Falklands is still a good one

Other Wars Falklands/Malvinas War
#61

Bad probably but the diference lays the our country was devoted to no create that type of conflicts, the Argentine army have no the custom to ocupy territory ilegally.

Did you know that the Argentine Army occupied the south Brasil in 1828?

Did you know that in 1870 completely destroy the Paraguayan army and took over the entire country?

However the generals at that time were smart enough to leave those countries to avoid any trouble like Malvinas one, never a war was fought to gain territory of another Sudamerican nation, just to eject the spanish Armym and to defend the own borders.

#62

Mate, I know that there were lots of armed conflicts between the interests that became the modern South American nations of Spanish descent.

Common sense would suggest that you’d all have united to give the Portuguese lot a flogging instead of squabbling among yourselves.

The fact you preferred to fight among yourselves says something about the history which informs Argentina’s attitude to the FI.

#63

Im always amazed by the fact that Argentine continuilly carps on about the Falklands but in reality if they actually took over the Islands they would do absolutely nothing with them. No one in Argentina really wants to live there. Its just a mythical prize that a whole country can feel good about wanting to own. A sort of shared gripe, ‘life may be abd, but imagine how good it would be with the Malvinas back’.

Utter foolishness if you ask me, the bottom line is that this isnt 1830 or even 1982 and the Islanders should decide what they want to do, on their own after all, its them that really own the Islands. Let the people who want to live there do so in peace.

#64

The War of the Triple Alliance resulted in Argentina retaining part of Paraguay. It wasn’t handed back. And most of Argentina’s early history involves attempts to re-unite former elements of the Viceroyalty of the Rio Del La Plata, i.e. conquer Uruguay and Paraguay.

The spin that Argentina didn’t try to shift borders is nonsense.

#65

Wasn’t there an ongoing border dispute between Chile and Argentina that resulted in Chile sort of aiding the British in certain situations?

#66

I think they still have the dispute, somewhere south I think and if I recall some of the best Argentine troops were left there during the conflict while untrained and ill disciplined conscripts were sent to fight against the Best Army in Europe. Good plan that.

#67

You’re thinking of the Beagle Channel dispute over the Picton, Lennox and Nueva islands.

It was a dispute submitted to international arbitration. This ruled in Chile’s favour and in 1978 upon the announcement Argentina mobilised for war. The intention being to impose a military solution favouring the Argentine claims. War was averted through a papal intervention and the dispute was more submitted to arbitration. Again the arbitration ruled in Chile’s favour.

After the successful invasion of the Falkland Islands Galtieri made a comment to the effect that they intended to solve the Beagle Channel dispute once and for all. Chile took that as an implied threat and moved troops to defensive positions, Argentina repositioned its best troops fresh from the Falklands Invasion to counter. Chile assuming Argentine victory would result in an invasion felt compelled to support Britain.

After the Falklands War, the dispute was finally settled in 1984 but it took a national referendum to accept the arbitration. 82% voted in favour of a compromise that recognised Chilean sovereignty but granted Argentina certain rights.

The dispute arose from 1881 boundary treaty between Argentina and Chile. This demarcated the region into Argentina and Chilean territory. What killed the Argentine case stone dead was that until 1891 Argentine maps showed the islands as Chilean, then Argentina had a change of heart and decided on a new interpretation of the treaty and that the islands were in its territory.

Its common to find the Argentines very bitter about the support Chile gave to Britain but given the background, Chilean support was contingent upon the threat Argentina posed to Chile. In this respect, Argentine threats pushed Chile into supporting Britain but that seems to be conveniently forgotten.

#68

I think Spain should reestablish its empire starting with Argentina.

#69

The War of the Triple Alliance resulted in Argentina retaining part of Paraguay. It wasn’t handed back. And most of Argentina’s early history involves attempts to re-unite former elements of the Viceroyalty of the Rio Del La Plata, i.e. conquer Uruguay and Paraguay.

The spin that Argentina didn’t try to shift borders is nonsense.

Argentina retained part of the Paraguayan territory that is correct, however Argentina was pretty much forced into war by the same Paraguay, this country had a defensive alliance with Uruguay and invaded the Province of Misiones to made its way short to Uruguay. Obviously Argentina couldnt stay neutral after its territory invaded, its merchants ships captured and towns looted. Too bad for Paraguay in the final account but that happen when you got a maniac as Solano Lopez as ruler.

I think Spain should reestablish its empire starting with Argentina.

:rolleyes:…Spain have several troubles keeping its own territorial integration , the Basque Country, Galicia and Catalunya had all independentist ambitions, so honestly I dont think they are in conditions to pull out that enterpreise.

#70

Just to point out you claimed that Argentina had never retained territory seized by force.

That Paraguay invaded Argentine territory is indeed true but there is more to it than that. Such as throughout the 19th Century the Government of Buenos Aires tried to recreate the Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata by incorporating Paraguay and Uruguay into its territory without success.

Just for the edification of those not familiar with the history, the war started when Brazil invaded Uruguay deposing the Government, Paraguay came to the aid of their allies declaring war on Brazil and later Argentina when it refused permission for troops to transit its territory en route to Uruguay. The triple alliance was formed by the new Government of Uruguay allying itself with Brazil and Argentina against Paraguay.

After defeating Paraguay Argentine intentions were to split the country in half with Brazil. The reason why the country still exists is that Brazil preferred to keep a buffer between itself and Argentina. Argentine ended up with about 16% of the pre-war territory of Paraguay.

Kinda different from the initial picture painted isn’t it?

As regards the impact of the war on Paraguay. 90% of the make population was killed in the war, the population dropped from over 500,000 to a little over 200,000 of which only 28,000 were male.

Of the troops of the Triple Alliance taking part, mortality rates were very high about 50% of the troops died. The main cause of mortality being disease rather than battle casualties.

#71

My point was that if you continue war alone, against 3 countries wich had 15 times more soldiers that you, 25 times more ships ( the brazilian navy contribution to the war was not really important I must say) and 50 times more artillery…well you are a maniac.

If Argentina was the devil or the saint in the war…well I think that depend in wich historian you read, everyone had its own variant of the political and geographical justifications.

#72

To which you can add, muzzle loading flintlocks against modern repeating rifles.

Which by the why is not to condemn or excuse Argentina either way. You raised the issue to say that Argentina never fought a war for or retained territory and included in that the War of the Triple Alliance.

Well the Triple Alliance included a provision for the seizure of territory, thats more or less the reason Argentina went to war.

Care to retract that comment?

#73

There were no repeaters in the Argentine army , mostly there were percussion rifled muzzleloaders, the first breech loader adopted was the Remington Rolling block cal .43 in 1871.

Care to retract that comment?

No I wont, the main reason for war for Argentina was not capture any land but the total defeat of Solano Lopez. The demonization of the Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay victory comes from the 1960s when some historians ( wich had the tendency to write with the left hand) transformed Lopez from a dictator to an antiimperialist freedom fighter.

This is the same as blaming the UK, USSR and USA for the destruction and occupation of Germany in WW2…and forgetting Hitler.

#74

Gentleman

Zona Militar , has open a thread in English , were War Veterans can bring to us their accounts , it’s exclusive to Military Accions that have happen during the Conflict of 1982-

There are several War Veterans , invitations have been summited to :

Military Photos
key Publishing Aviation Forum
PPrune

All of them with British War Veterans - With whom we exchange stories and accounts -

Here is the link www.zonamilitar.com.ar/foros/…ad.php?t=18569

It will be an Honor for us to have you visit our forum and join us Thank You - Enrique

#75

That looks like a great site, and one that might teach some people on this site how to conduct a mature conversation between former enemies, but unfortunately when I click on your link it comes up with a ‘link broken’ message.

Perhaps you could check the site and post a fresh link?

EDIT: I’ve tried logging onto the main site www.zonamilitar.com.ar also the www.zonamilitar.com.ar/foros page. In both cases I get an introductory page which resolves to a ‘database error’ page.

It may be a fault with the site or with access to it from my end.

#76

Enrique the forum is not working, but that does not make sad at all. A forum like that in wich you arent allowed to talk about politics isnt a forum, is a joke, is useless.

And yes if some of the moderators have trouble with me saying that the zonamilitar is useless, worthless ( I have stronger words but let get away of that for a moment) just visit us here and I going explain with luxury of details my reasons.

In the meanwhile publiciting a forum in other does not seems very ethic.

#77

…

Edited by RS

#78

I understand your point of veiw about Politics -

But this forum al Zona Militar has the only Purpuse of bringing together the accounts of War Veterans from both sides -

We have started several month ago , we slowly went into :

Military Photos
Key Publishing Aviation Forum
PPrune

And it was a success - You should see how wonderfull it is to exchange accounts between War Veterans , they are able to bring to life war accions that have taken place during the conflict - Many of us Argies War Veternas have been talking and exchanging info on Military Accions - I would add to this the valuable contribution that we have gotten from Historians , from both sides -

This same objective is what has been imposed at Zona Militar , we have invited them to Join us at the Forum , to bring to us theire experiences , to talk about the War with us -

There is always two stories about something that has happen , the truth is somewere in the middle , so we try to “replay” what actualy happen based on the accounts from both sides - And we have never had to go into Politics , because we soldiers do not talk Politics -

Take a look , get into PPRUNe ( Military Aircrew ) see how we talk there , how we exchange with most respect ideas , stories and experiences -

View the conversations between Spencer ( Harrier Pilot ) Jualbo ( Historian ) Cosmicomet ( Dagger Pilot ) Ken ( HMS Cardiff ) Me ( Long Range Radar at Falklands ) Mercantiland ( Navy Historian ) Rivas ( Air Force Historian ) and many more -

This is what is going to happen at Zona Militar -

We do not want , we do not care about Politics - We only care to talk about the war - Most of us :

Talk the talk and have walk the walk -

It is so much interested to talk about the War , than to talk about Politics -
Besides most of us do not earn enough to talk about Politics , but we know what it is to fight at war -

Regards Enrique

Let me see what is going wrong with the link -

#79

www.zonamilitar.com.ar/foros/index.php

The thread is Falklands/Malvinas war -

Thank You

#80

Hi Rising Sun

the forum was on maintenance, now it works fine

Click here to register: http://zonamilitar.com.ar/foros/register.php

The topic is this: http://zonamilitar.com.ar/foros/showthread.php?t=18569

greetings