Battle of Stalingrad

World War II Russian Military
#21

Let’s say that Hitler orders 6th Army to surrender after it is encircled.

That would open up the only major supply-route (railway via Stalingrad) in the southern sector of the eastern front.

Soviet armies (lot of them were trying to move forward but could not because of the lack of supplies) would get ammo, fuel, etc… enabling them to roll forward, before German could setup the new front. Soviet armies would take Ukraine, outflank the German Army Group center, cut the supply lines of German forces located in Caucasus. WWII would be over, pretty much immediately?

Forcing the 6th Army to continue fighting was essential (only sensible solution):

  1. it tied up a lot of soviet armies
  2. it left rest of the southern sector soviet armies without supplies
  3. it gave Germans time to setup a new frontline
  4. it bought enough time to evacuate German forces from Caucasus

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#22

As i said concentrating a single army in one town was just perfect for the soviets allowing high sniper activity and very much resistance . Well i have a question why Hitler instead didn’t surround the city like he did with Leningrad ( well the siege wasn’t complete of course ) that would save many german troop lives and as we know the blitzkrieg tactic is surround and destroy with one fast move . Latter actually the brilliant Zhukov did use the german tactic against them with two armies closing the 6th army in ring of steel . Other thing - concentrating the 6th army in that single object made it vulnerable - their flanks were “protected” by poorly equiped armies with the iliusion that the soviets won’t counter attack really silly by Hitler as he never learned the Moskow lesson that the red army always make counter attacks in the winter. And it’s never a good decision to waste one army in bitter fight i would rather pull them back regroup them , give them winter clothes and establish a defensive position after a soviet attack then i would counter attack surrounding the Stalingrad and completely encircle it as in the open the germans expecially with such big army and in 1941-1942 were hard to stop .

#23

Well about the less casualty rate Hitler was a bip !!! You all know what i mean . He also , i guess , was the leader of the kind "lets sacrifice as many as we can so we can achieve victory , so was stalin , i also gues , from the men and the way he sacrifices his men … Perhaps he couldn’t make this flanking movement because of the Volga river but if i am not mistaken . And i dont think he would risk something also like Leningrad . But thats me

#24

Well that was just what i was thinking about avoiding the mistakes of Stalingrad and the major “luxury” that hitler made was one of his biggest mistakes too - to waste so many soldiers and to think in way "lets sacrifice as many as we can so we can achieve victory " is ok if you have 148 milions population like Russia , if you don’t have them simply soon you ran out of troops and you pull children into the front line . Yes perhaps it was not possible because of the Volga i don’t know too .

#25

Well i guess we forget something . Didn’t the russians in the battle Stalingrad made the “advance or you die” . Well we actually kill you they should say but … and about the part of the encircling part was , i guess , that he should brought more army in the Stalingrad front .

#26

The dictum was rather called “No step backwards”

#27

Well Hitler also had ways of "encouraging " his own troops like he forbidden the cease fire even to take the wounded and of course any retreat was dealt with shot for the "deserter " anyone who didn’t obey orders were put in punishment battalion i think where you have to do dirty work in the open conditions with harsh winter .

#28

and dont forget that the russian winter forced the germans to retreat only in the battle of stalingrad but also in moscow and i think in leningrad to

#29

So the initial causes of the downfall of Operation Barbarossa was weather, lack of proper supplies, lack of food (because we know that the Germans lacked food, which caused many fatalities; even after finding out the cause and trying to give the soldiers meat-paste that was too concentrated caused more deaths than starvation had), and Hitler changing his mind every other day, right?

#30

Summing it up that way would be a little too trivial I am afraid.
What about the meat-paste thing, never heard of that. Do you have more details about this? Exact denomination or the producer maybe…?
Gotta know if the producer still exists to check my repository

#31

Here’s an interesting link to German rations. Talks of meat rations but not really any meat paste.
http://www.dererstezug.com/IronRation.htm

#32

Hey, that’s an interesting site of a reenactment group. Although it says nothing about the meat-paste of death there’s some great stuff there.
I liked the guidance to the typical Wehrmacht hair cut!

#33

That is a very informative and professional site. I went back and looked around on it some more.

#34

Perhaps trying to sum it up so tightly is not the best way to express what happened. However, it seems as if that’s what people want to say about this particular campaign, even if it is a trivial way of presenting it.

[b]LINK[/b]
This article explains what I’m talking about if you read under “Starvation”. There are also references cited.

#35

If the rest of your output is going to be like that, please refrain from telling us anything else, ever. About 80% of it is wrong, and the rest is blindingly obvious.

#36

Dude, You make us Canadians look bad. Do yourself a favour and stay out of the Alberta Tar Ponds…

#37

Staying in them would suit me just fine!

#38

Now I see what you were up to. In your original post you were mentioning the assumed reason for the failure of Operation Barbarossa though.
This “instant death” phenomenon however occured inside the Stalingrad pocket exclusively. It was nicknamed “the heart of the 6th Army” (Das Herz der 6. Armee).

#39

Stalin’s son named Yakov Dzhugashvili was captured by the Germans early in the war. When German Field Marshal Paulus was captured in the battle of Stalingrad, the Germans offered to trade Stalin’s son for the Field Marshall. Stalin refused and subsequently Stalin’s son died in German detention camp at later date of questionable causes. Hard to believe that a man would sacrifise his own son for reasons of war. I just don’t understand this.

#40

As far as I know the fate of Stalin’s son is uncertain. He was a 1st Lieutenant in soviet Artillery Regiment 14 and was captured on July 19, 1941.
It’s told that Stalin answered to the proposal of the prisoners’ exchange you mentioned as following: “It’s a bad deal to change a Field Marshal for a Lieutenant”…

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