I believe they are accurate. It always used to be assumed that the P-39 was used by the Soviets for ground attack, but in recent years more info coming out of Russia has corrected that. Without AP ammo, the 37mm gun would have had a negligible effect on tanks.
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
The big differences are in the cartrigde case.
Teorically the AP M4 round (37x145R) could penetrate 25 mm vertical plate at 300 meters. That makes an antitank ?
Maybe yes maybe not:
Just some examples of armor:
Pz II ausf f : 35 mm front 15 mm side.
Pz III ausf H/J 50 mm front 30 mm sides.
Pz IV ausf G 80 mm front, 30 mm sides.
Pz V panther 80/100 mm front, 40 mm sides.
Pz VI B Tiger 1, 100 mm front 80 mm sides.
That demonstrate that it have some posibilities against the thinner armor in the lighter vehicles but the the M-80 round was a very simple one, a solid piece of steel with tracer, no explosive charge or balistic cap. the initial speed was about 609 m/s…compare that with the larger NS-37 round, 900 m/s.
M4 ammo, note the M-80 AP.
Now the longer bottlenecked russian round, 37x195 mm.
The NS-37 was put in some single engines aircraft like the Yak-9, Lagg-3 and Yak-3 that made those double use aircraft (air-to-air and air-to-ground) but because the soviet aicraft were made mostly of wood they have not the strenght and durability of the cobra, also cannot carry as much armor protection and the radio equipmente was inferior, maybe that make the Airacobra so loved in the USSR.
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And Happy new year BTW.
Thanks for the feedback Tony.
I must say that you have a very impressive website.
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm
The USA did fit one 37 mm gun to its aircraft - the M4. However, this fired low-powered 37x145R ammunition and was not very effective against tanks, being intended for air combat. Much more impressive was the M9, which was a belt-fed development of the Army’s M1 long-recoil AA gun and fired powerful 37x223SR cartridges. Special AP loadings were developed for this gun but it was never used in action.
Thanks for the charts, pics and information Panzerknacker. Very interesting.
Keep in mind, we’re also talking about top shots on the thinner turrets and engine compartments. In any case, the P-39/63 would have been very effective against soft skinned vehicles and horse drawn carts…
The top armor in the Panzer moves around 15 to 40 mm in the heaviest, so chances are increased.
P-39 of the USAAF in the Mediterranean TO. I wonder how was the killing ratio of this plane against the Bf-109 and /or the Vichy French Forces, if any.
Great pic.
True, but you have to remember that the striking angle is not favourable. Fighter-bombers didn’t usually attack ground targets at more than about a 30 degree angle, which means that the penetration of AP rounds against horizontal armour would be substantially reduced to a small fraction of their optimum figure.
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
Indeed, other issue is that there is not sureness about the provition of the M80 round to Russia, some sources say did not.
P-39Q and P-39F.
I am not sure about this last one, it would be interesting to know the real performance of the airacobra against the german and Vichy French fighters.
P-63D, this poweful plane incorporated several fine characteristics including a bubble canopy, a refined laminar wing and improved high velocity M9 37mm cannon.
Just one prototipe was made.
The US 37mm M9 was an interesting gun. It was based on the army’s M1 AA gun, firing the same 37x223SR ammo (far bigger and more powerful than the 37x145R of the M4 and M10), only with a slimmer and lighter barrel, and belt fed; the P-63D installation contained 48 rounds of ammo.
It was intended as an aircraft gun but, apart from a few trial installations like the P-63D, was never used as such. A few were fitted to PT boats, just as the M4 was. The pic below (from the Ammunition Photo Gallery on my website) shows ammo from automatic guns used in PT-type boats of various nations in WW2 (the big 57mm being for the British 6 pdr Molins gun).
It would made the P-63 an ideal tankbusting plataform .
P-39s kills in the Mediterranean Teather of Operations:
Form. “P-39 Airacobra unit of WW2” jerry Scuts/Osprey military publishing.
Nice video about the general characteristics of P-39.
http://video.google.com/videohosted?docid=-4973497638554184738
I like the Airacobra a lot, it was unconventional…
P-63Q, the manned target aircraft.
Undoubtly one of the most weirdest task ever impoosed to an aircraft:
Although the P-63 never served with the USAAF in any combat role, it was, however, to serve with the USAAF in an another completely different capacity. This was, in fact, one of the most strange and bizarre roles ever fulfilled by any military aircraft, namely that of manned flying target!
The first flying target Kingcobras were created by taking five P-63A-9s off the production line, redesignating them RP-63A-11, and subjecting them to extensive modifications. First, they were stripped of all armament. Next, all internal armor was removed. The wings, tail, fuselage, and rear canopy were then reskinned with over a ton of heavy sheet metal. A special frangible bullet for firing by gunnery students was designed. The bullet was manufactured of lead and graphite compound, so chosen that the bullet would easily shatter upon impact. Pressure-sensitive plates were fitted to the skin so that hits by the frangible ammunition on the airplane could be recorded. A light in the propeller hub (situated where the cannon used to be) would flash whenever a hit was registered, causing crews to give the aircraft the nickname “Pinball”. The name stuck.
It was thought that the dorsal air scoop of the “Pinball” would be its most vulnerable spot, so various styles of air scoop were tested. The first RP-63A-11, 42-69647, had a much smaller “clamshell” scoop in place of the regular intake. The second RP-63A-11, 42-69654, had a flush intake with no scoop at all. The third and fifth (42-69769 and 42-69801) also had “clamshell” intakes,whereas the fourth (42-69771) had a normal intake. Eventually, the “clamshell” type of intake was adopted as standard.
After these five modifications were completed, 95 production versions of the “Pinball” were produced under the designation RP-63A-12. It was similar to the P-63A-10.
In 1948, surviving RP-63A aircraft were redesignated QF-63A, although they were never used as pilotless drones.
Two hundred examples of the P-63C-1 were modified on the production line as armored target aircraft (“Pinballs”). Serials were 43-10933/11132. These were redesignated RP-63C-2 (Model 33C-2), and were more or less similar to their RP-63A predecessors, except that it had the V-1710-117 (E-21) engine and had several minor refinements. Like the RP-63A, the RP-63C-2 had all combat equipment removed and was fitted with a 1488-pound armor skin against which frangible bullets fired by gunnery students shattered. However, the RP-63C-2 differed from the RP-63A in reverting to the normal dorsal air intake of the standard P-63C.
Many RP-63Cs were used as target tugs rather than as targets. In 1948, surviving RP-63Cs were redesignated QF-63C, although they were never used as pilotless drones.
Serials of the P-63As converted as flying targets were as follows: 42-69647 Bell RP-63A-11 Kingcobra 42-69654 Bell RP-63A-11 Kingcobra 42-69769 Bell RP-63A-11 Kingcobra 42-69771 Bell RP-63A-11 Kingcobra 42-69801 Bell RP-63A-11 Kingcobra 42-69880/69974 Bell RP-63A-12 Kingcobra
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p63_9.html
Final set:
Bell P-39D - 36th Fighter Squadron 1943
Bell P-39L - 100 GIAP USSR 1943
Bell P-39Q - 9 GvIAP USSR 1944
Bell P-39Q - 19 GvIAP USSR 1945
Bell P-39Q - 71st Tactical Reconnaiasance Squadron 1944
Bell P-39Q - 72nd Fighter Squadron 1944
Bell P-39Q - 108 GvIAP USSR 1945
Bell P-39Q - 129 GvIAP USSR 1944
Bell P-39Q - 339th Fighter Squadron 1943
Bell P-39Q - 362nd Fighter Squadron 1943
Bell P-39Q - GC I/5 French Air Force 1943
Bell P-39Q - GC II/6 French Air Force 1943
Bell P-39Q - GC II/9 French Air Force 1944
Bell P-39Q - GC III/6 French Air Force 1944
Bell P-39Q - 2nd Combined Special Air Regiment Polish Air Force 1944
Bell P-400 - 601 Squadron RAF 1943
Bell P-400 - OK Squadron Portuguese Air Force 1943
Very nice work Clave !!, first time I saw the polish skin.
