Best American Fighter of WW2?

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#21

Oh really the ONLY P-39.:wink:
It seems for me you are a little biased here.
You or do not know the history of the P-39 or simply ignores some obviouse things.
For you know the P-39 was not a best US fighter. it was a not so good in comparition with the other allies fighter and it had the very limited application in the Western front- the alies pilot simply disliked it.
It was an low altitude airctraft that found to be the very effective in the Eastern front where the most of air battle has been fought under 5000 of mettres.
True the p-39 was the great airplain, but it was the worst the tactical datas in comparition with the soviet La-5fn ans Yak-9 all of modification.( since the 1943). Nevertheless the some of famous soviet pilots prefered to fight only in the P-39 ( Pokriskin and Rechkalov for instance). This was their “specialisation”.

#22

I believe they flew the ME109 as well, ironically.

#23

To anyone who is a P-47 'Bolt affectionado, I’d be interested in the changes in performance form the early models to the final 360-degree canopy variant…

#24

I think some of these problems were alleviated by none other than Charles Lindbergh in the PTO, where the plane went on to soldier until almost the end of the war. But I could be wrong…

#25

Hi Nick,

Quick info from work:

P-47 Thunderbolt
From Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-47_Thunderbolt

Contains overview of Thunderbolt models:
P-47B / P-47C / XP-47E / XP-47F
P-47C
P-47D / P-47G / XP-47K / XP-47L
XP-47H / XP-47J
P-47M
P-47N

Bubbletop P-47s

All the P-47s to this point had a “razorback” canopy configuration with a tall fuselage spine behind the pilot which resulted in poor visibility to the rear. The British also had this problem with their fighter aircraft, and had devised the bulged “Malcolm hood” canopy for the Spitfire as an initial solution. This was fitted in the field to many North American P-51 Mustangs, and to a handful of P-47Ds. However, the British then came up with a much better solution, devising an all-round vision “bubble” canopy for the Hawker Typhoon. USAAF officials liked the bubble canopy, and quickly adapted it to American fighters, including the P-51 and the Thunderbolt. The first P-47 with a bubble canopy was a modified P-47D-5 completed in the summer of 1943 and redesignated XP-47K. Another older P-47D was modified to provide an internal fuel capacity of 370 US gallons (1,402 L) and given the designation XP-47L. The bubble canopy and increased fuel capacity were then rolled into production together, resulting in the block 25 P-47D (rather than a new variant designation). First deliveries to combat groups began in May 1944.

It was followed by similar bubble-top variants, including the P-47D-26, D-27, D-28 and D-30. Improvements added in this series included engine refinements, more internal fuel capacity, and the addition of dive recovery flaps. Cutting down the rear fuselage to accommodate the bubble canopy produced yaw instability, and the P-47D-40 introduced a dorsal fin extension in the form of a narrow triangle running from the vertical tailplane to the radio aerial. The fin fillet was retrofitted in the field to earlier P-47D bubble-top variants. The P-47D-40 also featured provisions for ten “zero length” stub launchers for 5 inch (127 mm) High Velocity Aerial Rockets (HVARs), as well as the new K-14 computing gunsight. This was a license-built copy of the British Ferranti GGS Mark IID computing gyroscopic sight which allowed the pilot to dial in target wingspan and range, and would then move the gunsight reticle to compensate for the required deflection.

The bubbletop P-47s, per Roger A. Freeman, 56th Fighter Group, p. 81, were nicknamed “Superbolts” by combat pilots in the field.

NOTE: The final version of the Thunderbolt was the P-47N - first built and test flown in July 1944. It was the long-range version designed for use in the Pacific escorting B-29 bombers to Japan. It had a maximum range of 2,170 miles (3,492 km.) with drop tanks, top speed of 467 m.p.h. (752 km/h) at 32,500 ft (685 km/h at 9,145 m) and a service ceiling of 43,000 ft (13,100 m).

By 1944, the Thunderbolt was in combat with the USAAF in all its operational theaters, except the Battle of the Aleutian Islands. With increases in fuel capacity as the type was refined, the range of escort missions over Europe steadily increased until the P-47 was able to accompany bombers in raids all the way into Germany. On the way back from the raids, pilots shot up ground targets of opportunity, and also used belly shackles to carry bombs on short-range missions, which led to the realization that the P-47 could perform a dual-function on escort missions as a fighter-bomber. Even with its complicated turbosupercharger system it could absorb a lot of damage, and its eight machine guns could inflict heavy damage on lightly armored targets. The P-47 gradually became the USAAF’s best fighter-bomber, carrying the 500 pound (227 kg) bombs, the triple-tube M-8 4.5 inch (115 mm) rocket launchers, and eventually HVARs. From the invasion of Europe on June 6, 1944, to VE day on May 7, 1945, the Thunderbolt destroyed 86,000 railway cars, 9,000 locomotives, 6,000 armored fighting vehicles, and 68,000 trucks.

Although the P-51 Mustang replaced the P-47 in the long-range escort role in Europe, the Thunderbolt still ended the war with 3,752 air-to-air kills claimed in over 746,000 sorties of all types, at the cost of 3,499 P-47s to all causes in combat. In Europe in the critical first three months of 1944 when the German aircraft industry and Berlin were heavily attacked, the P-47 shot down more German fighters than did the P-51 (570 out of 873), and shot down approximately 900 of the 1983 claimed during the first six months of 1944. In Europe, the Thunderbolt flew more sorties (423,435) than P-51s, P-38s and P-40s combined.

By the end of the war, the 56th FG was the only 8th Air Force unit still flying the P-47, by preference, instead of the P-51. The unit claimed 665.5 air victories and 311 ground kills, at the cost of 128 aircraft. Lieutenant Colonel Francis S. “Gabby” Gabreski scored 31 victories, including three ground kills, Captain Bob Johnson scored 27 (with one unconfirmed probable kill leading to some giving his tally as 28), and 56th FG Commanding Officer Colonel Hubert Zemke scored 17.75 kills.

In the Pacific, Colonel Neel Kearby of the 5th Air Force destroyed 22 Japanese planes and was awarded the Medal of Honor for an action in which he downed six enemy fighters on a single mission. He was shot down and killed over Biak in March 1944.

Designers:

Alexander Kartveli
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Kartveli

Alexander Procofieff de Seversky
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_de_Seversky

P-47D Thunderbolt - Specifications
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-47_Thunderbolt
http://www.acepilots.com/planes/specs.html

General characteristics
Maker: Republic Aviation Corporation
Type: Single-seat fighter-bomber
Crew: One
Length: 36 ft 1 in (11.00 m)
Wingspan: 40 ft 9 in (12.44 m)
Height: 14 ft 7 in (4.45 m)
Wing area: 300 ft² (27.87 m²)
Empty weight: 10,000 lb (4,535 kg)
Loaded weight: lb (kg)
Max takeoff weight: 17,500 lb (7,935 kg)
Powerplant: 1× Pratt & Whitney R-2800-59 twin-row radial engine, 2,535 hp (1,890 kW)
Performance
Maximum speed: 426 mph at 30,000 ft (685 km/h at 9,145 m)
Range: 800 miles combat, 1,800 mi ferry (1,290 km / 2,900 km)
Service ceiling: 43,000 ft (13,100 m)
Rate of climb: 3,120 ft/min (15.9 m/s), other sources 2,780 ft/min
Armament
8 x 0.5 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns
Up to 2,000 lb (907 kg) of bombs
10 x 5 in (127 mm) unguided rockets

P-47N Thunderbolt - Specifications
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=90329&postcount=81
http://library.thinkquest.org/2819/p-47n.htm
http://www.cavanaughflightmuseum.com/Thunderbolt.htm
http://rwebs.net/ghostsqd/p-47.htm
http://www.acepilots.com/planes/specs.html

General characteristics
Maker: Republic Aviation Corporation
Type: Single-seat fighter-bomber
Crew: One
Length: 36 ft. 1 in. (11.07m)
Wingspan: 42 ft. 7 in. (12.98m)
Height: 14 ft. 8 in. (4.47m)
Wing area: 332.2 sq. ft. (30.86 sq. m.)
Empty weight: Empty 10,994 lb. (4,987 kg.)
Max takeoff weight: 20,699 lb. (9,389 kg.)
Powerplant: One 2,800-hp Pratt and Whitney R-2800-57,-73,or -77 18-cylinder two-row radial engine
Performance
Maximum speed: 467 m.p.h. (752 km/h) at 32,500 ft (685 km/h at 9,145 m)
Range: 2,170 miles (3,492 km.) with drop tanks
Service ceiling: 43,000 ft (13,100 m)
Rate of climb: 3,120 ft/min (15.9 m/s), other sources 2,770 ft/min
Armament
8 x 0.5 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns
Up to 2,000 lb (907 kg) of bombs
10 x 5 in (127 mm) unguided rockets
10 x 5-inch HVAR air-to-surface rockets

WAR DEPARTMENT
AIR CORP, MATERIAL DIVISION
Wright Field, Dayton, Ohio
June 18, 1942
P-47B Airplane, A.C. No. 41-5902
Acceptance Performance Tests
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/p-47.html

FLIGHT TEST DIVISION MEMORANDUM
REPORT SERIAL NO. TSFTE-2012
17 September 1946
FLIGHT TESTS OF THE P-47N AIRPLANE
AAF NO. 44-88406
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/p-47n-88406.html

Pratt & Whitney R-2800
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_&_Whitney_R-2800

Here are some images and info on my favorite version of the Thunderbolt - the P-47N:


From: Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, by The Aeronautical Staff of Aero Publishers, Inc. in cooperation with Edward T. Maloney, curator of The Air Museum, Aero Publishers, Inc., 1966


From: Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, by The Aeronautical Staff of Aero Publishers, Inc. in cooperation with Edward T. Maloney, curator of The Air Museum, Aero Publishers, Inc., 1966


http://richard.ferriere.free.fr/3vues/p47n_3v.jpg


From: American Aircraft of World War II, by David Mondey, Chancellor Press, 1996, p 222.

#26

The problems were design flaws, I have read that they had rectified at least some of them by the L model, but by then the P-38 had fallen out of favour with the top USAAF brass in Europe, and had already been almost completely replaced by the P-51.

Lindbergh’s field of expertise was I believe in fuel management, in effect he devised ways of extending the range by better engine control.

The P-38 had better luck as a fighter in the PTO because Japanese aircraft very rarely operated above 20,000ft

#27

I believe they flew the ME109 as well, ironically.

[/QUOTE]

They did Nick,

The planes were from Czechoslovakia, but they were not very popular as explained below. (I know it’s off topic, but just to reply…)

Avia S-199

The Avia S-199 was a fighter aircraft built after World War II by the Avia Company (Avia Akciová Společnost Pro Průmysl Letecký Škoda), a branch of the enormous Škoda Works in Czechoslovakia, built using parts and plans left over from Luftwaffe aircraft production that had taken place in the country during the war. Despite the aircraft’s numerous problems and unpopularity with its pilots, it achieved fame as the first fighter obtained by the Israeli Air Force for use during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Czechoslovak pilots nicknamed it Mezek (“Mule”), while in Israel it was officially known as the Sakeen (“knife” in Hebrew). In practice, the aircraft was more often called Messerschmitt or Messer (which also means “knife”, in German and Yiddish).

Design and development

Avia had started building Messerschmitt Bf 109Gs straight after the war under the Avia S-99 name, but soon ran out of the 109’s Daimler-Benz DB 605 engine after many were destroyed during a warehouse fire. The S-199 continued to use the Bf 109G airframe but, with none of the original engines available, an alternative engine had to be used. It was decided that as a replacement for the original engine, the aircraft would use the same engine (Junkers Jumo 211) and propeller as the Heinkel He 111 bomber. The resulting combination of parts was an aircraft with extremely poor handling qualities. The substitute engine was heavier than, and lacked the responsiveness of, the Daimler-Benz unit, and the torque created by the massive paddle-bladed propeller made control very difficult. This, in combination with the 109’s narrow-track undercarriage, made landings and take-offs extremely hazardous. A final hidden danger lay in the synchronization gear, which did not work as it was meant to, leading a few Israeli aircraft to shoot off their own propellers.[citation needed]

Around 550 S-199s were built, including a number of conversion trainers designated CS-199 (armed) and C-210 (unarmed). The first flight took place in March 1947, and production ended in 1949. The last examples were withdrawn from Czechoslovak service (with their National Security Guard) in 1957.

Israeli Service

Israeli agents negotiated the purchase of Avia S-199s from the Czechoslovak government in defiance of an arms embargo that Israel faced at the time. Twenty-five aircraft were obtained, and all but two were eventually delivered. The first examples arrived on May 20, 1948, six days after Israel’s declaration of independence, and five days after the commencement of hostilities by Egypt. They were assembled and sent into combat for the first time on May 29, attacking the Egyptian army between Isdud and the current Ad Halom bridge, south of Tel Aviv. This was the first action of 101 Squadron IAF. In combat, the type proved unreliable and performed poorly. One Avia pilot remarked “she tried to kill us on every take off and landing.” [citation needed] Furthermore, maintenance problems meant that no more than five were typically airworthy at any one time. However, the type scored victories over its opponents, including the Spitfire. [1] The Avias were mostly withheld from service by the end of October, at which time, only six remained operational. The S-199 continued making sporadic sorties through mid-December; American pilot Wayne Peake flipped one on its back on December 15.

Israeli Air Force Museum
http://www.davidpride.com/Aviation/IAF_Main.htm

Avia S-199
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avia_S-199
Avia S-199 (“Messerschmitt”), Spitfire and Mustangs - Israeli Air Force Museum

Spitfire Mk. IX in the Israeli Air Force Service 1948-1956
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Rev2/1201-1300/Rev1260_whitecrow-Spitfire/rev1260.htm

North American P-51D Mustang - Israeli Air Force Service
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/mustang.html

Israeli P-51 Mustangs from Sweden
http://www.thescale.info/news/publish/printer_Israeli-Mustangs.shtml

Israeli Air Force
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Air_Force
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2848/
http://www.iaf.org.il/Templates/HomePage/HomePage.aspx?lang=EN
http://www.iaf.org.il/Templates/Aircraft/Aircraft.aspx?lang=EN&lobbyID=69&folderID=78&subfolderID=182

101 Squadron - first squadron Israel’s air force
http://101squadron.com/101/101.html
http://101squadron.com/welcome.html

Aircraft Types Flown by 101 Squadron
http://101squadron.com/101/aircraft.html

101 Squadron pilots:
http://101squadron.com/101/people.html

This will eventually be a list of all the 101 pilots and others involved with the squadron, with each name linked to a page or list of links about that pilot. I will consider the unit to have formed up on May 21, 1948, the date on which the first Avia S-199 arrived in Israel. Although not officially named the 101 Squadron until later, the unit first took part in operations on May 29.

To start with, here’s an alphabetical list, of the following format: Name; nationality; date of arrival in Israel; fate; comments. Dates are 1948 unless otherwise noted.

Click the airplane icon to go to each individual’s page.

#28

Below 25.000 feet ill take the p-51 above 25.000 feet ill take the p-47.

#29

Oh really the ONLY P-39.
It seems for me you are a little biased here.
You or do not know the history of the P-39 or simply ignores some obviouse things.
For you know the P-39 was not a best US fighter. it was a not so good in comparition with the other allies fighter and it had the very limited application in the Western front- the alies pilot simply disliked it.

Of course, the P-39 had to be the worst US fighter, but in the hands of some soviet aces, they were very successful. I read somewhere that Russian pilots found the P-39 more reliable and generally ‘safer’ than the more powerful soviet fighters of the time.

#30

Are you sure they didn’t lose any planes in combat???
http://www.geocities.com/mouseman27_2000/tuskegee.htm

#31

I think I’ll revive this briefly.

First; People, we cannot say which is the best, unless you decide the year which is observed.
Most of these frames recieved many upgrades and modifications during the years of service, so do we look at MK1, or the latest Mark?
(this is usually painfully obvious when people compare Western Allies best dogfighter, and yanks hail P-51D while downplay older model Spitfire as a measurement)

These planes had various different roles, some were in the spotlights because of their role, some were in the sidelines.
Some planes flew in the early years, some were late comers in the war.

What do I think:

P51 Mustang; Was a good all around jack-of-all-trades. It exelled in long range escorts due to the long range, but it was NOT feared among Luftwaffe.
-Known weakness; was to score a hit to the scoop, it caught fire right after that. Sometimes Mustangs ripped their own wings off.

P-47 Jug; Prototype got fatter and bigger until it looked, and behaved, like a rhino. And with as much stopping power and strength. It had better firepower due to the two extra HMGs, and could carry quite a lot under its belly, which made it a great in ground attack role. Also it could take a lot of combat damage.
-Known weakness;Like a rhino, turning needs time.

F6F Hellcat; Wildcat grown up. This plane was good all around, though it did not exell in any particular field. Its success was the stiff Japanese way to fight aerial war, and hard lessons U.S. aviators learned in the early war. Lessons which are usually put on Wildcats fault.
-Know weakness; Not really, it really was good all around. Not exellent, but good.

P-38 Lightning; Made before the wars, and flew through them. That is a good merit. Lightning had exellent range and it was swift plane thanks to the two engines. It also was a stable platform, and firepower was consentrated in the nose arc.
-Known weakness; The stable platform prevented turning engagements.

Brewster 239 `Pearl of the skies´; As much as yanks hate the family of this plane, it still is the best scoring fighter in WW2.
It also holds the first place in durability, as the same planes flew combat missions throughout war from 1941 early-to 1945, against every increasing numbers of more advanced fighters.
It also holds the merit of being the top scoring induvidual plane.
Born from Brewsters early models, these planes were stripped from all U.S. NAVY material, engines were replaced to those found in DC-3 transports, and they were sent to Finland.
Too late to enter Winter War, these planes were ready as the Continuation war began.
The 239 is not the “Buffalo”, but it was lighter, faster, more reliable(Finnish mechanics rigged the engines) and with great punch of four HMGs.(Finns took out IL-2 ground attack planes with ease, and commented about great hitting power of Colts)
U.S. and British aviators hated it, Finnish pilots loved it.
Known weakness;Old lady which could not be upgraded.

#32

P51 it is

#33

Best USAAF fighter of WW2 ?

Well, there is always this aircraft :wink:

#34

p-51 for sure

#35

I´d say the Vought F4U-4. It went into service in October 1944.
Surviability: stated to better than the P-47 (and certainly better than a liquid cooled fighter)
top speed: 718 km/h at 8000m
Ceiling: 12650m
Range: 2500km with centreline drop tank
Warload: Up to 1814kg (rarely used in WWII, (but used in Korea with the AU-1 (F4U-6)))
Acceleration: better than other US single engined fighters (though not as good as the P-38)
Roll: better than the P-51, not as good as the P-47
General manoevrability: good at high speed, bad at low speed (but in this connection, this was a high speed aircraft, so why go slow)
Carrier capable: Yes
Price tag: ?$, but you could have 5 F&F´s for 3 F4U´s (but presumably cheaper than the P-47 and and P-38)

The USAAC could (also) have made use of it as an escort fighter, fighter bomber, night fighter (F4U-4N- and E), recce (F4U-4P)… or what do you think?

The XF4U-3 was a high altitude interceptor version ordered in March 1942, but not ready before 1946. Their R-2800-16(C) engines still had 2000HP available at 12200m. 3 were built by Vought and 13 as FG-3´s by Goodyear and “they were used for very high altitude test flying” (flown to 12200m is also stated).

Found the number, which was 772km/h, but not the altitude (presumably 10000m+)

#36

Mustang
Cheap and easy to build
Flies to berlin, kills everone else and comes back in 1 piece.
Also, armed with rockets, it was a good ground attack as well as besting Soviet jets in Korea.

#37

The trickiest thing about the P51 that you don’t much hear about is that the 40 gal. fuel tank right behind the pilot made the plane very, very touchy (unstable) until it was run dry, it was the first tank to use, if you didn’t get this little tidbit of info when you were transitioning from another aircraft to the Mustang you got a real nasty surprise on your first and maybe your last mission.

I had to pick the F4U Corsair, I love the Jug and the Mustang, but there is just something about that bent-winged bird that I love. The j\Japanese called it “Whistling Death”. Of all the aircraft that were kept in service after the war and into Korea the Corsair did the best job, the Jug was scratched, so was the super efficient Hellcat and the Mustang proved too vulnerable to ground fire, but the Corsair could put the ordinance on target and get you home.

#38

P-51D/H. The P-47 and F6F are runners-up, and the P-40 is vastly underrated.

The mustang was cheap to build, easy to fly, and could escort the bombers all the way to Berlin. It gave great service in both Europe and the Pacific.

It shot down Me-262s over Germany and Soviet jets in Korea, no small feat for a prop fighter.

#39

The poor little F4F Wildcat was pretty underrated too…If they were flown with the right tactics they could down about anyone…once they were refitted as the FM-1 they could outfight almost any aircraft in the sky.
I do believe that a P61 Black Widow was proven to out turn a Hellcat, which was built just to out fight the Zero…that is a real feat of flying.

Hell, I guess I should just say I love them all and be done with it…

#40

Small quibble. While the P-51H entered operational service just before the end of WW2, it didn’t see any combat.