Hmm, with the chinese, I’d really love to see the next 1 or 2 decades in time lapse. My personal opinion is that they’ll really run into major trouble in so many areas that it might very well lead to the disintegration of their society. Their overexploitation of the ecosystem would be my personal bet as the number one reason for a future disaster.
Sometimes I think that the average American in the 20-30 yr. age group would have to google about what a tool is, then how to use them. Having been a tool maker, (impact, and prying tools, ) I found it near impossible to find a shop boy who knew what anything was, including (no kidding,) a claw hammer
As this topic is all over the place, and the more interesting for it, I might as well ask if the average American check out chick (teenage supermarket check out girl) has difficulty in identifying simple fruit and vegetables, like peas in their pods? That’s caused consternation a few times for me.
A check out chick asked me recently, after carefully studying the item for a while and comparing it with pictures on her screen to help the vegetably challenged, if my leek was a spring onion. Der!
As this topic is all over the place, and the more interesting for it, I might as well ask if the average American check out chick (teenage supermarket check out girl) has difficulty in identifying simple fruit and vegetables, like peas in their pods? That’s caused consternation a few times for me.
A check out chick asked me recently, after carefully studying the item for a while and comparing it with pictures on her screen to help the vegetably challenged, if my leek was a spring onion (shallot? in US?). Der!
This could be the start of it, with food prices inflating at 18% p.a., which if it works across the board will have the greatest impact on those least able to afford it. http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/soaring-food-prices-lift-chinas/story.aspx?guid=0127E318-43CB-49C2-A3A7-01CA5D60B161&dist=SecMostRead
Welcome to the world of capitalism, China.
The larger U.S. food marts have everything automated, with bar codes etc. But, produce uses a different thing. There are stickers on the individual pieces of Veg, or fruit that have a number, which the computer at the checkout knows to be a particulat item. The checker enters the #, and is then prompted to either enter the quantity of items so numbered, or to weigh them. then the computer does everything else. I have been asked what the price of certain things are on occasion, or what they were, (sometimes there are no stickers, )
much like McDonalds, the system attempts to take the human influence out of the transaction, so that anyone, even those who do not speak English well, can operate it with some efficiency.
Rather a good article on this in last week’s Economist pointing out that rising food prices will tend to help the poorest in society (subsistence farmers in the third world) more than anyone else, assuming governments don’t screw things up.
Anyone reckon they’ll manage not to screw things up a treat?
Hrhr, never, they will screw up, of that I’m sure. :rolleyes:
That doesn’t make sense.
By definition, subsistence farmers don’t sell produce. They produce only enough for themselves, if that.
If the argument is that peasant farmers will do well, I doubt it. There’s not a lot of history to show that any economy favours peasant farmers in sharing profits in a bountiful fashion.
My confidence in governments is unshakeable.
They screw up everthing a treat, even screwing things up. Like this:
Queensland Premier Anna Bligh admits her government failed a 10-year-old girl pack-raped twice in an indigenous community - the second time after being returned there by child safety officers.
The admission came as court transcripts showed a legal officer who prosecuted the case described her pack-rape in 2006 as "childish experimentation’’ and consensual "in a general sense’’.
The child - who cannot be named - was gang-raped at the age of seven in Aurukun on Cape York in 2002, and was later put into foster care with a non-indigenous family in Cairns.
However, child safety officers in April 2006 returned her to Aurukun, where she was raped again at the age of 10.
Ms Bligh today admitted the Child Safety Department had failed the girl.
"I think it is very important to understand, and I don’t resile from the fact for one moment, the system clearly failed this little girl,’’ Ms Bligh told reporters.
But she said the government took immediate action by disciplining the officers involved, moving the child, and improving child safety processes.
Ms Bligh could not give a reason for the officers’ decision to return the girl to Aurukun, but said it should never have happened.
Cairns-based District Court judge Sarah Bradley did not record convictions against six teenage attackers and gave three others aged 17, 18 and 26 suspended sentences over the 2006 rape.
The state government is appealing the sentences and has ordered a review of around 75 sexual assault cases in Cape York over the past two years.
One senior child safety officer has been sacked and two others suspended for 12 months on full pay over the incident, but the two suspended officers are appealing the decision.
My bold
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/we-failed-gangrape-girl-bligh/2007/12/11/1197135436147.html
Gee, I’d hate to be punished for screwing up as a government officer by being punished by the government by being paid for doing sweet FA for 12 months.
It’d be almost like being at work, asleep at the wheel, without having to turn up.
I might never be able to cope with the stress of having to go back to what, for want of a better term, is called work.
Not true. Certainly not as true as it once was. Both GM and Ford have higher reliability ratings that their Euro counterparts…
Where GM and Ford lose is in “fit and finish,” (plain dashboards, lack of options, parts that don’t fit well together etc.) because they simply cannot afford to offer what the Japanese and some of the Euros do…
very true. the problem here in germany and I think also in europe is, that us-built cars suffer from their bad image that they mainly deserved in the 80s and parts of the 90s. here, we only have about 1,5% of true US cars on the roads (by far the most are german cars and a lot japanese beside a growing part of korean autos, which are quite good I thik), only a few real “enthusiasts” buy detroit iron - like I did, allthough my chrysler 2-seater was built by KARMANN (www.karmann.de) in osnabrück, germany - with 39% of mercedes parts, but with true american design.
often, the cars from GM, fomoco and chrysler are much better than their image, but in a country with such high prices for gasolene like germany, you cannot win with gaz-guzzlers like an escalade. a pity that chrysler and benz went apart in the end.
jens
This may be a n old thread by now, but I can shed a bit of light on American cars, I worked for G.M. for a long time, and the 70’s-80’s-early 90’s, were not good decades for quality for any of the big 3. (GM in particular.) Not always from simple poor quality of fit&finish, but some serious design flaws, and poor materials as well. Aside from the usual screw-ups on the line from speed-ups, and parts shortages, and monday/friday syndrome, there were problems resulting from high M.P.G. expectations of the E.P.A.The Fleet average fuel mileage needed to come up alot. G.M. felt this was more important than general quality, so their armies of engineers worked on what to do about it.
One of the first things was to build a V-6 engine, and put it in full sized cars. thought it would save fuel use. All it did was under power the large cars, and force the general to lower the ratio of the differential gears to compensate, causing the engines to wear out prematurely,about 50,000 miles. Consumers were not impressed.
Their next great idea was to convert some highend models to diesel power, not by producing a true diesel engine, or buying one out on the maket, but by changeing some gas engines into deisels with different heads, and some other fittings. These didnt last long either, as the blocks, and other parts of the engine were built for gas, and couldnt stand the pressures of diesel, so they broke apart, sometimes splitting right down the middle. Consumers were not impressed.
Then there was the new idea for Cadillac, the much hyped 4-6-8 engine, that would shut cylinders off as the car cruised, not needing them to run at highway speeds, until needed for passing etc. All it ever really did was catch fire easily. No cookie there either.
The 305-350 cu.in. gas engines that had bad cams in them, resulting in expensive repairs, GM denied all warranty claims as being a customer fault problem. The courts later decided otherwise, so rack up another great idea.
The Turbo metric 200 transmission, supposed way of the future, could, (and was ) be installed in any sized car, and featured parts of some new plastic, that would save miles by weighing less. or some such tripe. They failed miserably, unable to withstand the rigors of even smaller engined cars. about 85% needed to be replaced. Another triumph for the general.
There are more of these bad ideas from the general, but I dont want to use up the whole site’s space. When I retired a year ago, the quality had improved to be on par with anyones, Toyota, honda, even the German badges. And this is pretty much the case in the big three now. there is eally no telling difference in who’s car you buy. Toyota has a good reutation, but in truth, it is mostly perceptual, their cars are not measurably better than any other, they just have a good PR campaign, and have sold the idea till people believe it. They have some proceedural superiority, but it doesnt help the consumer.
tankgeezer
If you think the US car industry was bad, you should have seen BMC / British Leyland / Leyland Australia.
http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?quotesf.htm
There are so many disasters in its history that it’s hard to pick the worst, but one of its best efforts of corporate stupidity has to be proceeding with both the ex-Buick Rover V8 and the Triumph V8, both 3.5 litre, when Rover and Triumph were under the same umbrella.
The Rover V8 went on to become a very good motor, while the Triumph V8 suffered numerous problems, not least legendary overheating problems even in England and a stretchy timing chain that needed to be changed every 20,000 miles, before it started jumping teeth with interesting consequences.
Of course, there were some other brilliant achievements, notably building cars intended for the US that couldn’t meet US emission controls. The Triumph TR6 sports car developed 150 HP with Lucas petrol injection (who knows what it could have done with Bosch or any other reliable injection system?), but to meet US emission controls they fitted twin Strombergs that produced only about 105 HP and sold it as the Triumph 250 in the US. Similar problems with Spitfires and TR7’s.
Because of the strict emission laws that were in force in the USA by 1975, extensive anti-smog equipment was installed in the TR7 and the 8-Valve 2-Litre engine, which was not exactly the most powerful engine to start with, suffered badly from the resultant power loss. In the USA, the TR7 was offered in two states of tune in order to meet the varying emission regulations within the country: 90bhp from twin-Stromberg carburettors in 49-State tune and a paltry 76bhp in single-carburettor California tune. In reality, this fact demonstrated that British Leyland had no suitable “federal” engine in their line-up and they were suffering as a result of this.
http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?tr7storyf.htm
When Triumph finally got it right, using the Rover V8 in the TR8, it got there just in time for things to go wrong.
1980 heralded the introduction of the Triumph TR8, but unfortunately for British Triumph fans, it was made available in the USA only. Strong and smooth Rover V8 engine allied with the convertible body style made for an extremely appealing car – a kind of latter-day MGB-V8, in fact. Performance and economy were excellent and the aluminium alloy engine was perfectly suited to the job of being the power unit for a ragtop. TVR would make a good living through building such cars in later years.
The USA market recovered as a result of the launch of the convertible model, but it could not have come at a worse time, as the World slipped into global recession following the Iranian crisis in 1979. This factor alone did not affect the sales of the Triumph in the USA, but when the exchange rates moved in favour of a strong Pound, it certainly affected the profitability of the company’s sports cars in the USA. When the TR8 went on general sale in the USAin May 1980, it was met with unanimous praise, being hailed as nothing less than the, “Re-invention of the Sports Car”, by Car and Driver magazine.
http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?tr7storyf.htm
As for Toyota’s reputation for reliability, I think that persists because it was earned between the 1960’s and 1980’s when other makes weren’t as well made. Once earned, a reputation like that is hard to lose.
Toyota has a good reutation, but in truth, it is mostly perceptual, their cars are not measurably better than any other, they just have a good PR campaign, and have sold the idea till people believe it.
hehe, boring cars in fact, but they ARE good. every year the german ADAC (www.adac.de) makes a large survey where components like durability, reliability, defects and other important facts to measure a cars "value" are checked out. toyota is always under the best 10 autos. beside volvo, which makes it sometimes into the top ten, there are only japanese cars and a few germans (mercedes and porsche mainly). the highly preferred VW golf (bestseller here) had its problems to reach the peak, anyway, the VWs have a brilliant reputation here in their homeland and nearly everyone (so it seems) buys one.
the US automalers still have to learn a lot I think, and I also think that only very few US cars can really match to german autos. again, I drive a chrylser and never would buy a german automobile, but it is enough to sit down in a buick and than in a an audi f. e. the whole materials are still crappy in the buick and the often old techniques like suspensiosn systems and gas guzzling engines will prevent a real success in europe. I recently checked out the new mustang - again, it is the old US-problem: an emotional, sensetional design, fully loaded, but antique technical solutions like the rear axle.
jens
Maybe.
One thing I notice every time there’s extreme weather here is that the most common car pulled up on the side of the freeway is the Merc.
Used to be Jaguars, in droves compared with Mercs (and that was only the Jags which made it out of the garage), before Ford sorted them out. More or less.
Not sure what you mean by rear axle.
Rear axle drive is the only way to propel a car for anyone who wants to drive properly, and tow.
Actually, as far as I followed it over here, Mercedes had quite some difficulties between 2000 and 2004, qualitywise. You’ll have a hard time to RIP a Benz from the seventies, but all the electronics pretty much screw the modern cars. And as expensive cars tend to have more gadgets, they also tend to have more trouble in the electronic systems.
Why do i want to buy some crap with wheels on it
This is the third of your three utterly silly comments. Try not to make it four.
As a matter of fact all his posts have been in that category.
Oh, and Moreheaddriller, change your avatar please. Site rules state WW2 avatars only.
Some excellent comments in this thread overall, and kudos to Tankgeezer, pdf, RS* and everyone else…
Well you see, that’s just it. Toyota is boring because their now repeating the mistake that GM made in the early 90’s, focusing their production and R&D in the States on SUVs, trucks, and crossover SUVs. I think they’re just resting on their laurels and I’m hearing some anecdotal stuff about Toyotas, specifically the Highlander, driving shitty and becoming “rattly.” Take for instance the Toyota Corolla, a mainstay here for the small car buy. But it is extremely dated and some auto mags are actually beginning to pan the design as old, underpowered, and very very boring.
Right now I drive a late 90s vintage Saturn as my commuter car, and the that has only four less horsepower than the 2008 Corolla (124HP vs. 128HP). Also, a lot of people are decrying the new “Camcords” (both Toyota Camry and Honda Accord) as boring and lacking innovation. People tend to think that Toyota is flawless, but in fact, they have produced some real shit over the years. Their 90s vintage engines for the Camry’s were known as “sluggers” because of a defect that caused them to cook the motor oil resulting in serious deposits. And there have been some recent serious recalls involving faulty wiring, and fire, on their American “luxury line” known as Lexus (not sure if that is in Europe or South Asia)…
beside volvo, which makes it sometimes into the top ten, there are only japanese cars and a few germans (mercedes and porsche mainly). the highly preferred VW golf (bestseller here) had it`s problems to reach the peak, anyway, the VWs have a brilliant reputation here in their homeland and nearly everyone (so it seems) buys one.
Well, it’s sometimes difficult to go by quality lists though since often there is an inherent bias on the part of the editorial staff. But I can tell you that while the Volkswagen “Rabbit,” as the Golf is known in the US market, is popular with its owners, Volkswagen is having serious issues with their reliability since they’d outsourced production to Mexico and the brand is suffering greatly in the US market…
the US automalers still have to learn a lot I think, and I also think that only very few US cars can really match to german autos.
I agree that US auto makers have a lot to learn, but their overall quality surveys are actually much better than overall Euro makers in the US markets…Volkswagens are just terrible overall here mainly due to their faulty electrical stuff (though I like the Rabbit), Mercedes routinely gets bad reliability marks in Consumer Reports (which is why I think it is strange that so many love them here - not payin’ $40,000 for unreliable styling, sorry), and BMWs are okay, but they tend to have their issues as well. The Beamers seem to be the ubiquitous “pecuniary emulation” status symbol here…
again, I drive a chrylser and never would buy a german automobile, but it is enough to sit down in a buick and than in a an audi f. e. the whole materials are still crappy in the buick and the often old techniques like suspensiosn systems and gas guzzling engines will prevent a real success in europe. I recently checked out the new mustang - again, it is the old US-problem: an emotional, sensetional design, fully loaded, but antique technical solutions like the rear axle.
jens
I think I hinted at this in an earlier post but didn’t explain it. American “fit and finish” and styling are sub par because the cost of production of a GM or Ford automobile is higher than that of a Japanese orgined (but American produced) Camry or Civic. That’s their burden to bare.
It’s largely because the Unions here are strong in the automotive arena, but deals are being made and a lot of American makes are no longer actually made in America as many Japanese owned companies are made in America. Then there’s the fact that Ford, effectively or outright, owns Volvo, Mazda, Range Rover, and Jaguar and has effectively reduced the quality of the fist two. Their "f%$^ing faulty automatic transmission put into the early 1990’s vintage Mazda 323s and 626’s almost single handedly sank Mazda by giving them a very undeserved reputation for poor quality. This despite the fact that they were superior to the Accord or Camry when comparing the manual transmission variants, and the first 626s had received favorable early comparisons to BMWs and Mercedes rather than Accords or Tauruses. That put them into crisis from which they are only now really emerging from, though the Miata, Protege and the RX7/8 saved them from insolvency and maintained an image for performance on the products Ford kept their paws off of.
The manual transmissioned 626 from say 1994 was one of the best things on the road in its class and for the money. The auto trans thing (which is difficult for makers without vast experience in the US market) also unfair because Honda automatic transmissions from the 80s, and continuing to present day, are nothing to shout about either. But Ford also saved the latter and improved on their quality controls after nearly raping Mazda for their technology and returning the favor by giving them shitty auto transmissions, and US car makers lag only slightly behind the Japanese in quality, but far behind everyone is some areas of fit and finish in their interior cabin designs…
BTW, I love the new Mustang. If only I could afford a Saleen Oooof!
Rear axle drive is the only way to propel a car for anyone who wants to drive properly, and tow.
it has an antique fixed rear axle (I cannot explain better, sorry), not an independant rear suspension like all modern cars. on our streets and with the speeds you can drive here, this is a very unsave and uncomfortable way to drive. the few mustangs sold here suffer from massive cooling problems when going fast for a longer period. anyway, it is a nice car, but has no chance on the european market, although many like the design.
but their overall quality surveys are actually much better than overall Euro makers in the US markets.
again, I have to doubt that a bit for myself, allthough it could be referring to the mexican built cars f. e…
in direct comparison with euro brands, most us automakers will not be lucky winners in general, for sure. and there is a strong argument for that: there are and were quite a few us brands here on the market and for decades (!) - some models from chevrolet, cadillac, chrysler, some us ford models, dodge has been reissued as a brand here in 2007 with 5 us models - they never played any role at all. under 2% of all cars here us made. buyers chose BWM, OPEL, AUDI, RENAÚLT, NISSAN or what else and believe me, the us brands do and did a lot to catch attraction: they had the better design and provided much more value for money. chryler builds it`s autos in austria (300c, several jeeps), which is not a bad place to that. anyway, they always -year by year - get blasted by the ADAC-surey, which is the largest in europe.
the overall quality (not only the fit) is not better in general compared to european brands, look how many percent of buyers in the last years switched to japanese or european cars and they still do. wasnt 2007 the first year, where more us consumers bought non-domestic cars ever in history? and this has also its reasons in general quality flaws.
jens