Nickdfresh
Wrong. Read my last post again, carefully.
Because the US are using a semi-auto/auto sniper rifle, dosn’t mean the system is better. 'Remember, there is a world beyond the USA.
Paul
My Father carried a B.A.R. and was in the 382d Infantry, Company E. He was severely wounded on Okinawa (in the battle at the Shuri line on “Dick Right”).
I am putting together a military history of his service and I would love to have more information on the B.A.R. and also information on what my Father’s role in his company would have been. Can anyone help me or guide me to some websites that can help me?
Thank you so much for any help you can give me!
To repeat myself again in words of one syllable for the hard of thinking:
Sniping is an almost exclusively bolt action club for TACTICAL reasons.
Interesting slight change of subject though, no?
As for the straw man Lee Harvey Oswald argument, how much did a scoped Mannlicher Carcano cost in 1963, and how much did an M1D cost? The former was under $100, and the latter appear to have been constructed entirely out of unobtainium at that time. Even now they are like rocking-horse poo, and cuts is very lucky to have one (I have fired it).
Back at the plot: can you quote me a comparative accuracy test similar to the one which I quoted you in which a Kar98k tests better than a Garand? As a substitute, you can look up the military acceptance standards for accuracy for the two systems. Otherwise, return thyself to thy box.
Thank you.
But regardless of how many times you say a std '98 is more accurate than a std Garand it won’t make the claim any less incorrect.
No argument with that, none at all.
However, to aver that a K98 is more accurate than a self-loader purely because of it’s action type is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
Oh get off the outrage bus !
Having had the great pleasure of meeting the gentleman himself I know he still has the heart of a serviceman and can spot squaddie humour a mile off.
Oswald could have been caught with a handful of marbles, a forked twig and his sister’s knicker elastic and he’d still have been hung out as the killer.
Gunner-B,
So that you don’t have to actually do any work or thinking, here are two acceptance standards that may be of interest to you:
M1 Garand (standard infantry rifle): 4 minutes of angle (although most rifles would do much less than this out of the factory, 2.5 seeming typical).
Mauser Kar98k Sniper: at 100 m,3 of 5 shots in a rectangle measuring 80 x 140 mm, all five within a circle of 120 mm. Assuming that this is all shots edge-to-edge, this is exactly 4 minutes of angle.
This latter standard is from the German technical specification TL1/1003, quoted in Law’s Backbone of the Wehrmacht volume two, page 12, and relates to the standard required for a rifle to be selected from the production line to be set up as a sniper rifle rather than an infantry rifle. I have not yet found the infantry specification, although I am working on it.
So, what have we learnt from this? A standard, infantry M1 Garand that met the minimum US acceptance standard would have met the sniper acceptance standard for the Kar98k.
Now, please go and draw the following from stores: Box, For the Getting Back into, Yours, For the use of, No.1 MkI.
Man of Stoat
Now, are we getting a tiny bit agitated. Bleat and bawl & cry heretic all you like, You will never convince this old Squaddie.
I have a 1033 & will return to my box and settle down to a brew and egg banjo. I see that you haven’t found a way to get out of yours yet. (Probably still attached to the sprue)
Cuts
Meeting Mr Allingham doesn’t make you party to his personal thoughts.
Paul
What you said was that nobody was using it. Perhaps you should reread you own comments…
Sniper work up to today is almost exclusively a Bolt action club. Of course a different system may supersede the bolt action system, as will a system supersede semi & auto systems. Until then, it is bolt action.
You are also the one using the preponderance of bolt-action sniper weapons as a testament of their alleged, categorical superior accuracy. Not me…
Exactly! Oswald’s sniper perch was only 100 yards away form the President’s motorcade. In fact, he’d have been much better off with a Garand irregardless of accuracy…
You’ve definitely made your position clear, regardless of any evidence given you will refuse to accept the facts.
Merely putting your fingers in your ears and singing does not make your opinion correct, but it is of course your prerogative to be as wrong as you wish.
Your comment about Henry Allingham has four-fifths of buggerall to do with your contention that an average K98 is more accurate than an average Garand. You don’t happen to know an American chap who uses the pseudonym ‘IRONMAN’ by any chance do you ?
Looks like the 98 is going,
M1 Carbine damn thing never jammed!
Far lighter and smaller then the massive garand
And nearly useless beyond 50 or 100 yards! Especially in winter…
Maybe it did, even in ideal circumstances when the M1 was issued to prison guards and nobody was firing back.
THE mystery surrounding the conviction and execution of Ronald Ryan has taken a new twist, with his former accomplice claiming the last man hanged in Australia was innocent.
Breaking his silence publicly after more than four decades, Peter John Walker yesterday said Ryan could not have shot dead a warder during their dramatic escape from Melbourne’s Pentridge Prison in 1965 because the rifle he was using had jammed.
“I know the gun had jammed because I bloody well jammed it,” Walker said. “Ronnie shouldn’t have hung.”
Ryan was hanged in 1967 after being convicted of murdering warder George Hodson while he and Walker were fleeing Pentridge on December 19, 1965.
But there has always been uncertainty over whether Ryan fired the fatal shot from an M1 carbine the pair seized from a guard tower on the way over the prison wall or whether the bullet had come from the gun of a warder firing at the escapees.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22958005-421,00.html?from=public_rss
Some of the detectives hunting Ryan and Walker were also armed with M1s.
From a public safety viewpoint, it might have been an ideal weapon for police and prison guards where it had enough power to kill at shortish ranges but not enough power to go through a couple of buildings at longer ranges like our standard WWII .303 SMLE and its variants.
Cuts/Man of Stoat
I would just like to say that it is you that brought Mr Allingham into this ‘discussion’. If you don’t want someone quoted, then don’t bring him up.
My proof is Historical not favouritism, if it was then I could argue that overall, the best combat rifle of the two World wars was not the Mauser or Garand, but the Lee Enfield.
On Mr Oswald. Why don’t you have a long hard think about why he used a Mannicher Carcarno
As I have said before, ‘read my thread. If you do, look up the word a-l-m-o-s-t.
Ironman means nothing to me
Must go now and get back into my nice comfy box. ’Where’s those earmuffs’?
Paul
Oswald probably chose it because it was inexpensive,($20 usd or less) short (easier to conceal, ) and available through the mail with little paper trail. At the time, rifles were available through the mail for less than $10. Mostly the lesser European types, like the Carcano. They were also commonly available through hardware, and deptartment stores, piled on tables, prices from $5.00 to perhaps $12.00. As the saying goes," Cheap, fast, and dirty".
Really? And why is that?
On Mr Oswald. Why don’t you have a long hard think about why he used a Mannicher Carcarno…
He used the Carcarno because he paid just under $20 for it via mail-order. He also obtained a snubnose .38 revolver the same way…
Feel free to price out the M-1 Garand circa 196-. Then tell us why he didn’t use the Mauser instead of the Italian arm if accuracy was really his major consideration…
Pretty much any rifle can be used out to 100 yards. And if you’re somehow trying to insinuate that Oswald chose the weapon he did for anything more than being cheap and easily obtainable, you’re insane.
It was myself & not MoS who first mentioned Henry’s name on this thread, his name is quite recognisable as the oldest person in Britain quite aside from being a veteran of the Great War.
You could see which way your contention was going and arced up the outrage bus as a red herring.
But you haven’t quoted him.
Or is this just a gypsy’s ?
Please show us this ‘proof,’ it promises to be most entertaining.
You’d be in very good company if you did argue for the Lee Enfield, most people with considerable practical experience of all three support that view, however their conclusions have not been reached through favouritism.
I have old mate, and to a far greater degree than you might imagine.
If you mean your posts in this thread, and in particular this quote, “Sniper work up to today is almost exclusively a Bolt action club”, then, at risk of repeating myself, I have no argument with that, though not necessarily for the same reasons as yourself.
Edited for grammatical error.
I was bored at work, so I decided to read about the M-14 rifle and stumbled across this. The M-25, basically an improved M-21, is an accurized sniper variant of the M-14:
The Special Forces (“Green Berets”) have made some use of the M25 “spotter rifle”. The M25 was developed in the late 1980s within the 10th Special Forces Group, which was charged to support Special Forces sniper weapons as well as the Special Operations Target Interdiction Course (SOTIC). The M25 was first planned as a replacement for the old M21, but after the Army adoption of the M24 SWS as its standard sniper rifle, the M25 was intended to be used by spotters of the sniper teams, while the snipers would use the bolt-action M24. Tests had shown that the M24 and M25 have the same precision when using the same M118 ammunition.