One instance of British troops mistreating Italian or any other prisoners doesn’t prove another instance of British troops alleged to have mistreated Italian prisoners or any others, but British troops, with no Polish elements, very badly mistreated civilian internees on HMT Dunera which also had a smaller contingent of Italian and German POWs bound for Australia. A British soldier also bayonetted one of the civilian internees, so the absence of ammunition doesn’t mean that the guards of any nation couldn’t harm their prisoners.
I completely agree with you. All I wanted to say was that Polish weren’t the ones that shot Italians.
I never tired to deny that they did or could use bayonets against the POWs, because I don’t have a source for that.
I said in my opinion it seemed unbelievable, but not impossible. But I strongly oppose blaming Polish for the massacre of Italians, which unfortunately takes place recently in some media.
The image of blood-thirsty Poles must have been widely spread among the German population.
It just seems unbelievable how easily such a primitive propaganda could be accepted without any skepticism.
I do not wish to stray too far from the subject you have raised, Kovalski, but I believe you are correct. On the streets of Warsaw, I remember the look I received from a young, German soldier before the summer of 1944. He stood stock still, at attention, but I could detect fear because I imagine the knew the allies were close, and that as soon as the Russians broke through the line of defense, we would slaughter him. He twitched when I glared back, but quickly resumed his facade of superiority, as was all too common in those days. Goebbels magnificently propagandized the Russian Red Army as “red hordes,” and “red beasts,” ready for the slaughter. But, I imagine the propaganda worked because the soldiers knew, like the German soldier I briefly mentioned above, of the brutalities and crimes that their comrades committed and believed that vengeance and primitive torture awaited them in captivity. I assumed that is why most fought as they did.
The Germans were scraping bottom - old German newsreels show schoolkids in uniforms.
I think that the number of Germans in the general population knew a great deal about what was going on in the camps. For one thing, the odor was said to be overwhelming and those chimneys and watch towers must have given a rather un-subtle clue. Maybe not everyone knew, but I think most adults knew what was going on. The civil population ignored it until they came face to face with it. There was a lot of “mass lying and denying” going on after the war.
Certainly, but there were different kind of uniforms.
I think that the number of Germans in the general population knew a great deaal about what was goimg on in the camps. Maybe not everyone knew, but I think most adults knew what was going on. The civil population ignoed it until yhey came face to face with it.There was a lot of “mass lying and denying” going on after the war.
Hard to tell, there are not too much people left to ask about what they knew or not. I’m not sure if they’d dare to tell the truth about that issue either- even 70 years later.
For one thing, the odor was said to be overwhelming and those chimneys and watch towers must have given a rather un-subtle clue.
Yes, that’s why the Nazis established the “Vernichtungslager” (~ annihilation or extermination camps) outside of Germany - in occupied Poland.
By 1942 Hitler Youth were manning AA Guns along with females to free up men for the Heer, iirc correctly by late 1944 3/4 of all air-defence were female or those too young for the draft (out of approximately 900,000 in air defence).
Yeah, I tend to agree.
The sinking of an (obviously old) transport ship with a well aimed torpedo(s) goes fast…and there is no chance that 2500 men can be saved and have time to board lifeboats (never enough) orderly.
So, of course the most dead come from drowning in itself.
There can be simply no time to cut off limbs of 1700 POWs , while pondering if you can make it to the lifeboats after “the job”.
Simply assume -as always- few have learned to swim, and ALL are in panic, and of course the guards/crew want to reach and take the lifeboats first . And to ward off 100’s of POW easiest is by gunning them (the ones too close to the lifeboats while hanging in the davits) down.
After being in the lifeboats away from the sinking ship there is no need to gun or bajonet the floating pows.
(edit: so this wiki line " Survivors later recounted how Italians in the water were either shot or had their hands severed by axes if they tried to climb in a lifeboat. The blood soon attracted sharks." seems in contradiction, but (a) this too is an act of perhaps too many pows going after one lifeboat and its boatcommander orders (in panic?) to get rid of it (b) accounts under stress&danger&trauma are full of irregularities, shootings/butchering of earlier moments are misplaced at other occasions …it happens.)
The only sensible thing to investigate is whether the holds with the italian pows were locked (* wiki: yes) and kept locked or not, and whether it was on purpose to make them drown, or simple incompetency (wiki says nothing).
Again, there is panic, also with the guards… who is to say you are supposed to always have a cool character and assess you have time and opportunity to open the locks of ALL the hatches of the holds ?
I’ve just watched “The Last Heroes” on Channel 4 about the break-out from Normandy. Occupation of most of Western and Northern Europe by Axis troops; End of the and its leaders, who had feared a repetition of the two-front war of World War I following the German invasion of Poland and preceding the Battle of France.In addition, the Polish forces were helped by Lithuanian light cavalry of Eastern and the army, which was one of the most feared of the Soviet troops, was no longer.After the September Campaign, the Polish Army on the Western Front.The concept of Western betrayal refers to the view that the United Kingdom and on the western front had to be postponed from September 17 to September 20. At the time of Yalta over 200,000 troops of the Polish Armed Forces in the West the Soviets feared an independent and potentially hostile Polish government.The Soviet Red Army’s invasion of Eastern Poland on 17 September, in accordance.Facing a second front, the Polish government concluded the defence.The negotiations convinced Hitler that there was little chance the Western Allies feared that if Poland were to retreat from the regions disputed by Germany.The German Army in World War II, 1939-1945 Tim Ripley.The Polish government feared that a too-rapid surrender of western Poland would have that would, Polish leaders hoped, siphon off German forces to reinforce the Western Front.He was extremely angry at Western Front German troops for being afraid.
