Firing squad mythbuster?

Off-Topic Off Topic - Militaria
#21

Rising Sun,

Put all thoughts of wads from your mind, since neither modern ball ammunition nor modern blank ammunition has them.

A gas operated rifle typically offers less perceived recoil than the same weapon with the gas switched off. However, the measured recoil impulse is the same. something moving within the system cannot by definition affect the total recoil impulse, but it can change its rate of application to the shooter’s shoulder. The opposite, however, is true for most recoil-operated mechanisms, since the departing projectile conserves momentum with (to all intents and purposes) only the recoiling parts, which are stopped abruptly.

With ball ammunition, you have a projectile departing at velocity, along with the combustion gases at high-pressure, and therefore high velocity. the momentum of everything going downrange equals the momentum of the weapon backwards.

With blank ammunition, you have no projectile and a lesser amount of combustion gases leaving at much lower pressure. To all intents and purposes, the recoil is zero, or at least I have never felt any. Put a blank fire adapter on a self-loader, and all you will feel is the working parts being operated.

Does this answer your question?

#22

Just wondering, Man of Stoat: Are you an armourer or weapons expert? How do you know all that stuff, is it really just your hobby?

#23

It is a serious hobby viewed through a master’s degree in engineering, and a lot of background reading.

#24

Cool. I was just wondering, because you’re obviously pretty well informed about all that stuff…

#25

Then why does the dipso-bigot, (you know, the misogynistic wannabe-Strine, Gibson,) flinch when he’s shooting blanks* ?

  • From a firearm, I have no idea as to his Jaffa (whoops) comparability.
#26

I would say, maybe he’s just a good actor? Or he flinches because of the flash?

It is also possible that they added a recoil adapter, but you would only be able to do that in certain scenes…

#27

He flinches because it goes bang and he’s a pussy.

People who are competent with handguns don’t flinch even with live ammunition.

By the way, the adaptations made to get recoil-operated handguns to function with theatrical blanks are nontrivial. First of all, the locking surfaces have to be machined off, and a restrictor has to be placed in the barrel. It will then run as a straight-blowback, although often not very reliably. The only recoil the actor feels is the slide moving.

#28

Well, maybe the flinching is just for dramatic effect?

Just a question of concept: Wouldn’t it work for a ‘blank’, to have some kind of breakable, but not too fragile cover over the gunpowder, as to simulate a recoil?

The gunpowder would still have to break the cover, which could require the same amount of energy as the propelling of a bullet?

Or would the gun just blow up in your face?

Also, how does the muzzle blast compare between a blank and a live round?

#29

My recollection from warnings is that in blank firing exercises a blank could be lethal at very short ranges.

#30

The vast majority of the recoil is due to the momentum of the bullet, and the rest is due to the momentum of the gases. End of story. Nothing to do with energy, nothing to do with defeating a crimp, nothing to do with a wad, nothing else. M1V1=M2V2

If you read up the thread, you have an answer to your muzzle blast question although it is not described in such terms, namely that the muzzle pressure of the gases is vastly higher with a live round than a blank. Muzzle blast is merely the effect of feeling the muzzle pressure.

Now, recoil operated handguns modified as above spit like crazy out the top of the ejection port, which also contributes to actor flinching since occasionally a bit of kak will hit them on the forehead.

#31

Cool, I was just wondering. (I almost failed physics, so that should explain a lot :D)

Thanks for the info!

#32

I almost did physics, but I left school too early, so that should explain a lot. :smiley:

#33

Kind of…

#34

In the 1980s, an American TV actor was killed when at the end of a scene as he took a .44 magnum revolver filled with blanks and placed it to his temple and said jokingly, “this ones for me!” The blast drove a section of his skull into his brain killing him almost instantly…

#35


That’s really made my night, thanks !

Got any more like that ? :smiley:

#36

I got a lot where that came from. :smiley:

But to be honest, there’s actually quite a couple of his movies which I like…

#37

The reason they flinch and shut their eyes is that the gun still goes “boom” and it makes them jump. You can see it in most every actor’s eyes. Ever see “Alias” where super kick-ass spy Sydney is shooting on a range? with every shot she closes her eyes and flinches.

Jon-Erik Hexum was the actor who blanked himself to death, also Brandon Lee, Bruce Lee’s son, was killed with a blank. Even if it’s a blank there are expanding gases leaving the muzzle. Brandon Lee was killed by Hollywood stupidity. Pulling bullets from live rounds and putting them back in the caseing so they look like real ammo, getting a real bulet stuck in the barrel and then shooting said bullet with a blank into the actor’s chest…

While filming “The Patriot” they loaded the cannon with two 5 pound bags of flour, taped to hold shape but sliced by the SFX crew while loading so they would split open on firing. This gave the cannon a 10 pound “shot” to make it jump backwards realistically but the “shot” disintergrated on leaving the muzzle so there was little chance of injury.

Oh, and Mel can’t ride a horse either…well he can sit on one while it moves, but he can’t RIDE!!.

The two streaks in the extreme left hand side of the photo are the two bags of flour.