German Nuclear Weapon Program

I don’t know.

I do know that Japan undertook and achieved an astonishing rate and level of industrial and military development in the few decades between Commodore Perry and the Russo-Japanese war, which was assisted by bringing in overseas experts in various areas of development which made Japan the beneficiary of the latest knowledge and techniques in various area.

I don’t know whether Russia matched this, or whether it was as up to date as Japan at the time.

As pdf27 said, there were serious geographical and logistical problems facing the Russians as they had to steam half way around the world before they could face the Japanese fleet, where they were duly beaten and had no replacements to enable them to continue to fight.

Compare this with WWII, where the USA could replace naval and merchant ships at a very much faster rate than Japan could after foolishly entering the war with insufficient shipping to meet the logistical needs of its ambitions. Similarly, the USA produced pilots, notably carrier pilots, at a very much faster rate than Japan did after losing the cream of its crop at Midway. The same with submarines, which steadily destroyed Japan’s merchant shipping and lines of communication. Along with other problems such as Japan getting most of its oil from the USA before the war and then being reliant upon oil from the NEI, and to a lesser extent Burma and elsewhere, which had to be transported by ships subject to attack by the Allies (not just the Americans - the Dutch had a useful submarine fleet which escaped the Japanese invasion of the NEI). Meanwhile America had virtually all the oil it needed.

But the biggest difference between the Russo-Japanese war and the Pacific War was that the former was short and sweet where industrial capacity didn’t matter much while the latter was long and gruelling where industrial capacity mattered most in sustaining the combatants, and Japan didn’t have it.

As regards the Russo-Japanese War, there was I think an interesting contrast between the combattants. Russia had begun the process of “modernising” back in the days of Tsar Peter the Great in the late 17th century. Prior to that, it had been a rather retarded medieval backwater, of limited significance in European affairs. The reforms of Peter and his successors achieved a great deal of success - albeit on a fairly narrow front. The most obvious progress was in producing a modern army, which did indeed help project the country into an increasingly prominent position in the course of the 18th century, arguably culminating in the major role played by the Russia in the destruction of Napoleon. Much of the progress in military matters was based on the influence and/or direct participation of non-Russian experts (even when, as was often the case, their advice went unappreciated by the native Russian aristocracy. Outside the military, and certain areas of the arts and crafts, Russia remained an incredibly backward social construction. The problem was that when the next great drive for economic development - the industrial revolution - came along, there was no Peter the Great to drive it as, in this Autocracy, would have been necessary for really rapid progress. The progressive Tsar, Nicholas I, was assasinated before he could really get into his stride; his successor, Alexander III, was a repressive martinet almost worthy of Stalin, who was more concerned with securing the power of the Dynasty than with economic matters. A repressive police state, suspicious of education and of “rising” administrative and economic classes (which tended to be repressed or, more commonly, co-opted as a sort of minor branch of the nobility, in the pre-Revolutionalry French style) did not provide a very healthy environment for development and investment. Not that there was no development and investment - it is just that it was distinctly sub-optimal, and largely confined to European Russia and the Ukraine. The wilds of Siberia and, to some extent, of the Caucasus, were still explorer territory for much of this period - a bit like the US Wild West.

Prior to the arrival of Commodore Perry, Japan had been in self-imposed isolation for some two and a half centuries. In fact, in some respects, the country was actually more backward than it had been in 1610. For example, the military capacity of the country had been more or less dismantled; the Tokugawa Shogunate gradually removed the gun from Japanese society altogether. In the late-18th century, Japanese production of firearms was effectively confined to decorative matchlock weapons used by the top nobility for hunting, and importation of firearms was forbidden. Perry’s rude intrusion into this society administered a huge shock. The inability of the Shogunate to deal with the intrusion destabilised the regime, leading to its effective overthrow by a clique of “progressives” who took possession of the God-Emperor and, over the next decade or so, pretty rapidly dismantled the remains of the Shogunal system. The next item on their agenda was to propel Japan into a storm of modernisation and industrialisation, a process encouraged, for their own reasons, by foreign powers such as the US and the United Kingdom. By the time of Tsushima, Japan was a very different place. The militristic tendendencies of the technocratic rulers had produced military arms that were far and away the most effective in east Asia, an extraordinary achievement considering the short time in which this had been achieved. Japanese manufacturing had advanced in leaps and bounds; the country now mass-produced significant quantities of merchandise ranging from battleships to machine-made jewellery and western-style clothing. The Japanese financial and administrative systems had also advanced markedly in a Western direction. All in all, something at least generally resembling a Japanese take on a modern early 20th century state had come into being.

The social effects, of course, were not always very coherent, not surprising, given the rapidity of the change.I have read, in translation, a certain amount of the literature of this period, and it indicates that Japanese society was hovering in a rather confused fashion between traditional and imported fashions and values which had yet to be absorbed on much more than a fairly superficial level. Perhaps this goes some way to explaining the lamentable events of the 1930s and 1940s in the region.

In any event, when their interests clashed with those of the Japanese in the form of the Russo-Japanese War, the Russians (although they probably did not recognise the fact), were faced with fighting a vigorous enemy in the course of a current-phase economic and military modernisation, on his own ground, at the far end of a logistical desert far from Russia’s all-too-limited industrial centres. Scarcely surprising that the inadequate Russian naval forces in the Far East were eliminated by Japan with relative ease. That really left the Russians with the option of sending their semi-obsolete Black Sea Fleet on an extraordinary journey eastwards if they wanted to maintain the war at all. In the East they lacked sufficient coaling stations. As a result, the Russian ships sailed against the superior Japanese vessels with their decks loaded with coal. Still, perhaps, not a foregone conclusion; but when Japanese Admiral Togo outmanoeuvred the Russians to bring them under lateral fire, the game was up for the Russians. Not a foregone conclusion - but it should not really have been as much of a surprise.

Of course, it is arguable that the false lessons learned by the Japanese, both about military technology and about the threat posed by Western opponents, helped set them up for the disaster of 1941-'45. At the time, there is very much a sense of a Power on the way down suffering defeat at the hands of one on an opposite trajectory. Best regards, JR.

& an irony is… that in WW2, Churchill denied effective defence to British interests threatened by Japan,
by trying to impress Roosevelt by action in the Med/North Africa, diverting the needed equipment
to the USSR & keeping huge numbers of poorly employed Spitfires in Britain…

Much of the local population in Asia initially welcomed the departure of European colonial control…& the arrival of the Japanese with their promise of ‘co-prosperity’

But just as Hitler largely did in Eastern Europe…
Nippon blew it - by treating most of those ‘liberated’ peoples as ‘vassals’ at best…& slaves at worst…

The difference is that in Eastern Europe the Soviets mounted their own defence and offence and expelled the invader and chased it all the way back to Berlin, albeit with useful assistance from the other Allies.

No country including China and no colony invaded or occupied (i.e former French colonies) by Japan managed that or could have managed it.

Without the effort of the English-speaking Allies 1942-45, those peoples would have remained under Japanese control.

So it’s another irony that the European colonialists freed their former colonies from the Japanese colonialists to enable, quite unintentionally, the local people to throw off the yoke of both lots of colonialists in the post-war period.

Well, it is certainly arguable that if Hitler had been more amenable…
… to those who had been labouring under Stalin’s fearful yoke…

& hadn’t actually declared war on the US, so as to invite hoards of Mustangs rampante in `44…
just as Speer got his war economy into stride… he might’ve done Stalin…

Also arguable… is if Japan could’ve really rolled over the whole of China…

It was for sure, Roosevelt’s policy to see off the old empires, & while the cold-war kind of put the US
on the 1/2 arsed anti-commie 3rd world merry-go-round… they had old Europe carved up with Stalin…

So… Nuke-backed US monetary hegemony in the West & Red Army/iron curtain hegemony in the East…

Not likely. Germany didn’t (in the twisted Nazi view) have the luxury of sentimental notions of humanity. The Barbarossa planning was one that is largely a war crime in itself because it was predicated on feeding the Wehrmacht, and the German population as a whole that were already suffering chronic shortages at their “high-water” mark of controlling Western Europe at the expense of the Eastern populations and Soviet POW’s that would starve and freeze to death. For instance, the German belief that the conquest of France would result in a windfall of coal production turned out to be illusionary as they failed to account for the fact that French coal miners’ productivity would drop precipitously along with their moral after the defeat. Similar net drops in productivity was true across the board in food production and other resources in Western Europe putting the Germans in a quandary as they still now were responsible largely for the welfare of the populations reluctantly under their control - yet populations that didn’t seem interested in both supporting their nations and the Nazi war effort…

& hadn’t actually declared war on the US, so as to invite hoards of Mustangs rampante in `44…
just as Speer got his war economy into stride… he might’ve done Stalin…

Hitler viewed war as inevitable with the U.S. as there was already an undeclared “U-boat War” between the U.S. Navy and the Kriegsmarine in which sailors on both sides were dying for over a year by that point. The United States had already started on the road to mobilization and was rebuilding its largely backwater armed forces with a completely mechanized Juggernaut. The Nazis knew this, and decided their best gamble was to act before the Americans could bring their full potential of industrialization to bear. The Americans were openly supporting the French prior to the fall, and then the British became the recipients of the windfall of arms and supplies after the defeat. Hitler viewed the FDR regime as little more than a facade controlled by a Jewish shadow gov’t of Wall St. and Hollywood. His views may have been tainted with weird, conspiratorial bullshit. But in that view his actions make sense. He also saw the U.S. as a major source of Allied production whether directly in the war or not; and what he feared most was the huge potential of production of a American economy on a full on total war footing. His attack on the Soviet Union was an attempt to equalize the odds in an intercontinental “long war” by seizing and securing Soviet production facilities, its vast but inefficient agricultural resources, and its bonanza of resources such as the oil fields in the Crimea. Then the plan was to branch out into the Middle East via Iran and into the Far East into India once this was achieved and finally deal with the British before the Americans could fully mobilize.

The German High Command, even non or even anti-Nazis like Gen. Halder, thought that if they were able to destroy the majority of the Red Army by the time they reached the Dnieper-Dniester rivers, the Ostheer would achieve almost total victory and Stalin’s regime would collapse or be replaced by a military junta more amenable to an armistice. Their view was not unrealistic. What was unrealistic was the massive failure of intelligence in which they underestimated the near boundless reserves of the Soviet Red forces to replenish themselves despite suffering massive, near-crippling losses initially. Perhaps most of all, they failed to account that the “inferior Slavs” would be able to reestablish their industries in the East and come back at the Wehrmacht with a whole newer generation of weaponry such as the T-34 tank to replace the largely obsolete cache of weapons destroyed or captured by the Ostheer and Luftwaffe. They also failed to realize that the entry of America in the war would result in the mecanization of the Soviet supply line fundamentally equalizing the Red Army’s operational effectiveness with that of the Ostheer by the end of 1943.

In short, the Germans in Hitler’s regime such as Albert Speer believed that the war in the East had to have been won by the end of 1942 so they could turn against the Western Allies with their booty of captured industry, equipment, and resources. It was in a sense a desperate gamble tainted by the often bizarre prism of Nazi ideology. But there was certainly a method to their madness…

Also arguable… is if Japan could’ve really rolled over the whole of China…

It was for sure, Roosevelt’s policy to see off the old empires, & while the cold-war kind of put the US
on the 1/2 arsed anti-commie 3rd world merry-go-round… they had old Europe carved up with Stalin…

So… Nuke-backed US monetary hegemony in the West & Red Army/iron curtain hegemony in the East…

I think you mean Truman’s government. The U.S. didn’t really have much of a choice unless they wanted a potentially disastrous war with the Soviets. And the Soviets did the most and suffered the most to defeat the Nazi-Germany regime. Of course they were going to get some sort of hegemony in Eastern Europe they had already steamrolled over…

It didn’t have to.

Control of the riches in Manchuria was enough.

As for rolling over the rest of China, the assorted Chinese forces were a long way short of being a unified national force determined to resist the Japanese.

There were plenty of instances of Chinese warlords shifting their allegiances and troops between the Nationalists, Communists and Japanese.

If Japan had devoted to China in 1941-45 the resources it devoted to its southward thrust, and hadn’t annoyed the Allies sufficiently to increase their support dramatically for the Chinese during the same period, the result might have been different.

Except that Japan needed the oil in the NEI after the 1941 US / British embargoes threatened its capacity to wage war anywhere.

So Japan diluted its forces in China to go south and duly over-extended itself in the south. But it still held on rather well in China until the Soviets came in during the last few days of the war in their own form of blitzkreig.

But not much different in inhumane attitude and brutal human effect than the Soviet’s own exploitation and starvation of the Ukraine a decade earlier in the Holodomor catastrophe.

Which is just another example to support my long held view that when it came to a contest between Hitler and Stalin, Stalin was going to win because he was the meanest bastard on the planet at the time and, unlike Hitler in the period 1941-43, had no more regard for his own people than any others as long as he survived.

Yet Hitler was realiant to a significant extent upon Ford and General Motors products early in his own war in Europe for his advances east and then west, which should have advertised to him that the US was a sleeping giant he had no hope of conquering once he had aroused it.

Hindsight is a great gift we all have, but even modest foresight in 1941 might have indicated that the problem of increasingly long lines of communication eastwards favoured the Soviets in inverse proportion to the extent they disadvantaged the Germans.

One of the Germans’ problems was that, like Napoleon, they focused too much upon taking Moscow as the emblem of victory over the USSR rather than realising that (as the Soviets did brilliantly after the war in shipping much of German industrial machinery back east, no doubt with the benefit of the following) the Soviets could take their industrial capacity eastwards faster than the Germans could advance, and then rebound when the Germans were over-extended.[/QUOTE]

I wasn’t drawing moral parallels between dictatorships and their political systems. There is no question that Stalin murdered vast segments of his population from White adversaries to nationalists seeking to get out from under the Russian thumb to even members of his own political apparatchik based often on paranoia. It is indeed true that numbers of Soviets starved during the war because of the ruthless and absolute allocation of resources to the Soviet war effort…

Yet hitler was realiant to a significant extent upon ford and general motors products early in his own war in europe for his advances east and then west, which should have advertised to him that the us was a sleeping giant he had no hope of conquering once he had aroused it.

Then is not Holden guilty by association? :mrgreen: Meh, I think there is some truth to that but it tends to be a bit overstated. The advances in the East may have been more reliant on Peugeot, Renault, and Citroen rather than GM or Ford (something that would bite the Heer in the *** with the logistical nightmare they imposed on the already tenuous German supply system). The only vehicle I think any of the American “Big Three” could be held accountable for is perhaps some aspects of the Opel Bltiz truck. But I haven’t looked into it. The Germans certainly marveled at American mass production but only truly achieved it in limited segments. After all, Ford and GM didn’t make horse carts and trains! :slight_smile:

Hindsight is a great gift we all have, but even modest foresight in 1941 might have indicated that the problem of increasingly long lines of communication eastwards favoured the soviets in inverse proportion to the extent they disadvantaged the germans.

I’m the best Monday Morning Quarterback there is! (as we call it here, a reference to American football - generally played on Sundays with failures bemoaned on Monday around the proverbial water cooler)…

One of the germans’ problems was that, like napoleon, they focused too much upon taking moscow as the emblem of victory over the ussr rather than realising that (as the soviets did brilliantly after the war in shipping much of german industrial machinery back east, no doubt with the benefit of the following) the soviets could take their industrial capacity eastwards faster than the germans could advance, and then rebound when the germans were over-extended.

It’s hard to pin it down to a single factor. But many would argue that the defeat at the gates of Moscow was the actual “turning point” of WWII as it was the first major, strategic setback suffered by the Wehrmacht on the ground, and the second one if we count the Battle of Britain…

Not vehicles, but GM’s synthetic fuel technology which it apparently provided to I.G. Farben and without which Speer is reported as saying in 1977 that Hitler would never have invaded Poland. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=n2aV2f7wrXgC&pg=PA181&lpg=PA181&dq=speer+poland+general+motors+synthetic+fuel&source=bl&ots=16FmZZeTnR&sig=qnyYHK7pwCiHWSr3gni_WVb7Th4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SjGvUbvTCuPxiAfZ34HoCg&ved=0CFwQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=speer%20poland%20general%20motors%20synthetic%20fuel&f=false

I’ve tried to track down details of this after earlier attempts came to nothing #518 - 519 at http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php/9608-Things-Hitler-could-have-done-to-win-WWII/page35 but, apart from versions such as the previous link the best I have been able to find is the following, which doesn’t explain GM’s involvement.

Innovations in chemistry and synthetic oil production in national strategy

In June 1932, when Hitler was leader of the National Socialist party (before he became Chancellor in 1933), I.G. Farben, the German chemical giant, met with Hitler about the continuing Nazi press attacks against the company as a tool of “international financial lords” and “money-mighty Jews” for the fact that Jews were in some senior positions. The Nazis also had been criticizing the company for its expensive project to manufacture synthetic oil from coal. At that time, Germany, and, in fact, Farben, was the world leader in chemistry, and one of its scientists, Friedrich Bergius, had, in 1913, invented the hydrogenation method to produce high-grade liquid fuel from coal which Farben patented the rights to in 1926. The hydrogenation process involved heating large amounts of hydrogen with coal at high temperatures and pressure in the presence of a catalyst. Fischer-Tropsch process which involved steam reforming of coal to produce Syn gas (mixture of hydrogen and carbon monoxide) that was subsequently converted to synthetic oil was the competing technology, but wasn’t as successful. Hydrogenation could also produce aviation fuel while the Fischer-Tropsch method could not. Hydrogenation received the highest accolade when, in 1931, Bergius (the inventor) and Bosch (the Chairman of I. G. Farben) shared the Nobel Prize in chemistry.

I.G. Farben had argued that synthetic fuels from coal could cut Germany’s dependence on foreign oil and also reduce the pressures on foreign exchange. Hitler became engrossed at the meeting with Farben in the synthetic oil discussion and endorsed the idea. When he became Chancellor of Germany in Jan 1933, his vision of the new Germany involved the autobahns, the limited-access highways without speed limits and the Volkswagen – “the people’s car” in 1934. He wished to subordinate all of Europe to the Nazi Reich and himself, and build the Nazi war machine (bombers, fighter planes, tanks, trucks) that all depended on oil. Thus, independent oil supply was vital, and the synthetic fuels from I. G. Farben would become an important strategic source.

Standard Oil of NJ, which had unsuccessfully been exploring alternatives to crude oil as early as 1921 and had acquired acres of shale oil in Colorado with the hope of extracting oil out of the shale, showed interest in the I.G. Farben technology. Standard saw the technology as a clear threat to its business and went into an agreement with I.G. Farben. They had no need to produce synthetic fuels because of the oversupply of crude oil but wanted to ensure that each stayed out of the other’s main fields of activity. Standard would also rather use hydrogenation to increase the gasoline yield and boost octane out of crude oil. In 1929, the two companies made an agreement whereby Standard had patent rights outside of Germany and, in exchange, I.G. Farben would receive 2% of Standard’s stock, or 546,000 shares valued at $35 million.

Pictures of 1931 Nobel Chemistry winners Carl Bosch (left) and Friedrich Bergius (right) for hydrogenation.
Credit: Wikimedia Commons

I.G. Farben, had made a large commitment to synthetic fuels, but the oil surplus with the discovery of East Texas and the Great Depression made the synthetic oil production uneconomical. The cost of producing the synthetic oil was, for example, about 10 times the price per gallon of oil from the Gulf of Mexico. The only hope of saving the synthetic oil business was some sort of state support or bail out as tariff protection was not enough. The aviation fuel potential of hydrogenation won I.G Farben the support from the Air Force, the Luftwaffe. The German Army also lobbied on behalf of Farben that Germany’s oil supply would not be adequate for its warfare plans. To put things in perspective, coal supplied 90% of Germany’s energy, while oil only accounted for 5%.
Germany’s “blitzkrieg” attacks and strategy on Europe: Beginning of WWII

Two things demonstrated the danger of foreign oil dependence in the mid 1930s to Hitler: in Oct 1935, when Italy invaded Ethiopia, Mussolini almost faced an oil embargo; also, the “hated” Bolsheviks/Soviets who owned a large chain of gasoline stations throughout Germany in Feb 1936 abruptly stopped its deliveries of gasoline to Germany. In March 1936, Hitler re-militarized the Rhineland on the border of France in violation of international treaty agreement. When he was not challenged, he prepared for war by 1940 by inaugurating a four-year plan which aimed to reduce foreign oil dependence through new technology and chemistry. Thus, synthetic fuels industry was to become a central part of the overall war plan.

Hitler (left) pictured with some of his generals, 1942.
Credit: Wikimedia Commons

By 1937-38, I. G. Farben was no longer an independent company but an arm of Nazi Germany. The company was “Nazified” and all Jewish officials and the anti-Nazi chairman, Carl Bosch, who had signed the agreement with Standard Oil, had been removed. By the time Germany started WWII in Europe with the invasion of Poland on September 1, 1939, 14 hydrogenation plants were in operation, and by 1940 synthetic oil output was 72,000 barrels per day or 46% of total oil supply. In terms of military operation, the Bergius process accounted for 95% of the total aviation gasoline. Hitler never forgot about the importance of oil in war and, in fact, his strategic approach to war, the blitzkrieg (“lightning war”-fierce but short), was based on it and was meant to lead to quick decisive victory before one runs out of petroleum. The blitzkrieg strategy worked surprisingly well not only in Poland in1939 but also in spring 1940 when Hitler’s forces overran Norway, the Low Countries, and France with ease.

https://www.e-education.psu.edu/egee120/node/242

Nah, Holden as we know it post-war didn’t exist before or during the war. (Meanwhile Ford is pulling out of Australia in a few years Ford Australia to close Broadmeadows and Geelong plants, 1,200 jobs to go - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) )

There was no fully fledged car making industry in Australia before the war, just various enterprises assembling various imported parts into fully assembled cars with various levels of local manufacturing. Holden was essentially a body maker fitting imported engines under an agreement with GM.

Post-war Holden as a fully fledged car maker is actually a direct product of WWII.

We got such a fright from the Japanese advance and our limited industrial capacity that we saw bringing in car manufacturing as a way to redress that, so we wouldn’t be so vulnerable again.

It also fitted in with preserving relatively advanced industrial capacity developed by Holden during WWII and providing employment and economic development in the post war years. http://naa.gov.au/collection/snapshots/find-of-the-month/2007-jan-16.aspx

Most of the cars around when I was a kid in the 1950s were a mix of older and recent imports from various countries and an increasing number of Holdens made here. For example, my paternal grandfather had a Holden from the early 1950s until his death in 1957; my father had a late forties then a mid fifties imported Chev in the first half of the 1950s, then a new imported Plymouth (endless trouble, but I loved the ?sailing ship? emblem on the C pillar - can’t recall it clearly now) which he got rid of for a new Holden around 1958-9, which went really well until he got pissed and wrote it off and altered his face in 1962 by demonstrating that even a really good Holden was no match for a really well built bluestone wall. His next car was a ?1950s Jaguar with running boards, bug-eye lights, the most magnificent green felt lined tool box with recesses for each tool, and a sunroof which, in the era before seat belts, I made full use of by standing on the front passenger seat and standing up like a tank commander with my upper torso outside the car (this image was ruined a little by being joined by the stray mongrel mostly Alsatian dog the old man had adopted - or which had adopted us -, with its front paws on the roof and its ears and cheeks flapping in the wind and barking at everything and nothing as my drunken old man piloted his latest toy around the metropolis, but maybe the dog made me look a bit fearsomely Nazi as I was very blonde in those days). The emerging German theme was continued with his ?next (I think I’ve forgotten a car or two in those ancient, confused days) purchase of a new VW. It was a very versatile car, as my drunken old man demonstrated when there was flooding on a main road near us and he loaded me up and kept running the car into a flooded depression in the road where it seemed to sort of float across under momentum, with a magnificent bow wave. This car came to a sad end when, pissed as usual, he tried to cross a railway cutting by going to the left of the road bridge. The car went into the cutting and blocked the track, causing some difficulties with public transport and the relevant authorities. He replaced it with another VW which came to a sad end when, pissed as usual, he collided with another car; drove about 10 clicks on a front tyre deflated in the collision; stopped to change the tyre; and unwisely irritated a policeman who had turned up in response to various reports by saying to the policeman, in front of a crowd which had assembled in his wake, “Would you mind getting out my way? Can’t you see I’m trying to change my tyre?”. He blew .285

Meanwhile my paternal aunt also had a VW, my most vivid memory of which is that it used to move a little sideways when passing large vehicles coming the other way on highways on our regular country trips on much narrower roads than are common nowadays. She traded that in for a new HD Holden in the mid 1960s, which was a model distinguished by really clever pedestrian hip-splitting projections either side of the headlights
1966-holden-hd-premier-sedan.jpg

My maternal grandfather had a Morris woody of some sort, but I can’t recall exactly how it looked. It was like one of these https://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=552&q=morris+woody&oq=morris+woody&gs_l=img.3..0l2j0i24.6449.8704.0.9409.12.12.0.0.0.0.245.1704.4j4j4.12.0...0.0...1ac.1.15.img.Ww3jAWUrKP8

No offense old mate, but if Albert Speer told me the sky was blue on a sunny day, I’d make sure to look up and check. Speer was largely a self-serving **** that saved his neck at Nuremberg by misrepresenting himself as the repentant, sophisticated Nazi that had true talent and a genius for organizing. In fact, his “Armaments Miracle” is largely a myth born of self-serving propaganda and misrepresentation during the war and the trumpeting of unskeptical historians and his own memoirs ever since. Adam Tooze, writer of the seminal Wages of Destruction, is particularly damning with the statistical evidence of Speer’s efforts and credibility being wildly exaggerated as his capacity to take credit for his predecessors whilst expanding his domain in turf battles with other prominent Reich’s program managers was boundless. All this while presiding over one of the most egregious examples of modern slave labor and the callous disregard of the genocidal murders of the Jewish workers while he was practically in bed with Himmler as Hitler’s leading co-regime-pets. I think Speer is disingenuously trying to spread the blame around for Hitler’s rise to power and his aggression in Poland, But to me this makes little sense as shortages rarely deflected the Fuhrer from following a very aggressive foreign policy, and his suppliers of oil in Romania and then the USSR were still very much in his sphere…

The truth is that you can’t find any evidence because it doesn’t exist. I think the above paper may be some apologist piece attempting to deflect blame away by casting it upon America. That is not to say however that American industries didn’t have huge investments in Germany and a stake in Hitler’s regime. Tooze states that GM was second only to Standard Oil with its roughly $55 billion investments and almost outright ownership of Germany’s largest car manufacturer, Opel.

Whatever ever Hitler thought of IG Farben, the German chemical giant maintained a “relationship of equals” with Standard Oil and eclipsed other chemical companies such as Du Pont and Britain’s ICI (Tooze, p. 116). Tooze writes that German companies, especially IG, had been working on synthetic chemical processes since the turn of the century with great success and had synthesized both ammonia and methane. The Former was used in explosives, the latter in the oil and gas industry. IG was in bed with the Nazi regime very early on. Tooze also writes:

By September 1923 Bosch’s research group had synthesized methane, and in 1926, at its Leuna facility near Merseburg, in the central German industrial belt, IG Farben embarked on the construction of the world’s first facility for the hydrogenation of, the alchemical process through which coal was transformed into petrol. This programme followed a clear scientific logic. But it was motivated by that most modern of fixations, the idea that one day all oil would run out.

It was this commitment to synthetic chemistry that made IG Farben into by far the closest and most important industrial collaborator of Hitler’s regime… (126)

GM had nothing to do with this and I suspect it was the inverse - Standard Oil that benefited a good deal from IG Farben in the realm of synthetic technology - and not the other way around. They were also the first to create synthetic rubber, something that was completely useless prior to the war but completely integral to the Nazi ability to wage it once they started it…

My father owned a 1979 Beetle convertible, the last year they imported them into the States. I remember the car quite fondly, but by the time I was old enough it ceased being a daily driver and was something of a weekend show car that people would often leave cards with their number on it in case he wanted to sell it. He finally did about seven years ago for a pretty penny to a guy in Canada.

Hard to believe Ford is pulling out of Australia, maybe their just pissed that Holden is now imported into the United States and used almost exclusively as a police car - once the sole providence of the obsolete Ford Crown Victoria. The New York State Troopers are now driving the Chevy Caprice police car.


Most of the locals have opted for the Ford Taurus SHO Police Interceptor…

Being a progressive State, Tennessee takes their law enforcement vehicles very seriously. I am pleased to see that the U.K. does the same with their Patrol cars. :wink: :slight_smile:

Humour-TennesseeStateTrooperCar.jpg

Met-police-Smart_1384962c.jpg

G.M. has been pleased to use the Aus designed rear-wheel drive platform in sporty 2-doors such as the
Camaro & previous Pontiac GTO & G8, as well as the long wheelbase cop cars.

Mopar makes a fairly good cop-car from the Charger, too.

Sadly, Ford Detroit put the kybosh on export to the US & other markets
of the big Aus-made rear-wheel drive Falcon sedan & Territory [SUV] vehicles…

Speer, it must be admitted…was a talented guy… to be Hitler’s best mate & cheat the hangman was no
mean feat…

I’m guessing that the Volksie is a pursuit vehicle?

I agree with your sentiments on Speer, although you fail to give him credit for his magical transformation of himself internationally post-war into ‘the good Nazi’ when the bastard should have hanged with the rest of them for presiding over, as you point out, a massive forced labour (and that’s a polite term for it) program.

But that doesn’t mean that we have to reject all he says as untrue, or modified to put himself in a better light.

I can’t see that there was anything to his benefit in making the reported comment about GM’s synthetic fuel technology, or why he would want to misrepresent that.

It’s still something on which I’d like to be able to find primary sources, or better secondary sources.

Speer has quite the mixed record and his wartime memoirs are unreliable, heavily politicized, and contradict his postwar statements of humanity and humility he seemed to so blatantly lack on his road to “reorganizing” the German war industry to which the “Armaments Miracle” can at best be only partially attributed to him. Speer was also the master of half-truths and red herrings…

I can’t see that there was anything to his benefit in making the reported comment about GM’s synthetic fuel technology, or why he would want to misrepresent that.

It’s still something on which I’d like to be able to find primary sources, or better secondary sources.

I think his main benefit was indirect that he was furthering his agenda of deflecting guilt from himself as being Hitler’s willing and enthusiastic servant and the last of his regime stalwarts by overly-tainting U.S. corporations with that brush. It is true that Speer passive aggressively opposed the Fuhrer’s plan to completely destroy German industry before falling into Allied hands - but his opposition was never openly against Hitler and he only began to transition to the inevitable defeat in the last months of the war as 1.4 million German servicemen died in the last months of his waning “Armaments Miracle”. The Wehrmacht suffered 450,000 casualties in January of 1945 alone (not to mention the deaths suffered by counted European civilians and service personnel and American “boys”), two or three months before Speer began his belated and meek opposition to Hitler’s policies so exaggerated and trumpeted by him after the war…

Oddly enough, they were on occasion used for that, but mostly they were used for Heavy Truck traffic regulation, roadside inspections of safety equipment, brakes ,tires, etc. Plus the occasional Super Market opening,and other public events. But the choice of vehicles the Police use can either present a problem, or provide a solution to one.

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I see the point about the Russians fighting far from where much of the countries resources are located and also see how only having one railway could make it difficult to rapidly transport soldiers and supplies to the battlefield.

However, I would think these difficulties could be overcome in a prolonged conflict. For example, I should think more railways could have been built and the Russians also had the ability to produce a greater number of ships than the Japanese. People make a point about Americans being determined to win after the sneak attack at Pearl Harbor but the Japanese seem to have also struck without warning in the Russo-Japanese war which I expect would have produced just as much outrage in the public and demand that the enemy be completely defeated. The Russians had shown a willingness to fight on despite tremendous casualties in prior conflicts and one might think they would have shown a similar tendency against the Japanese. Though the czar may have been unpopular with many of his subjects, it certainly seems plausible that public outrage would have served to outweigh distaste with the regime.