German Re-enactment in Eastern Canada

[Rising_Sun]

@tankgeezer

It’s like re-enacting going to work after one has retired after 30 years of working every day.

No, it’s not.

The re-enactors generally didn’t work in the job they re-enact, which is the job the real soldiers did.

Tangentially, my infantry trained NCO son and some of his army mates decided to try paintball a while ago. The much larger group of people ahead of them wanted to be allowed to fight on the paintball range as a single group. The paintball range agreed. After my son and his mates had shot the shit out of that group in several sessions, the larger group spoke to them and, upon finding out that they were fighting trained soldiers from a cohesive unit, said it was unfair. The larger group were firemen. My son’s group said something along the lines of “You’re the ones who wanted to take on everyone else on the range as a group, thinking you’d shoot the shit out of them with your combined firepower. Not our problem if you’re no good at it.”. Re-enactors, who tend to go for scripted encounters, would probably do way worse than the firemen in similar circumstances.

[Nickdfresh]

@Chevan

… a brilliant worlds!!! Really Beevor could write this? Doesn’t look like his style. But, he is rather fascinating novelist then historian…

He repeats it several times and he uses direct quotes and their sources…

[navyson]

I’ve posted before about my ancestors fighting for the Union in the Civil War. I’ve found reenactors that are associated with the companies next in line to the companies that my ancestors actually fought in. They participate mainly to keep history alive I guess. I’ve thought before about doing reenacting. Same thing, to keep history alive. To have a little glimpse of what my ancestors went through in real life I suppose.

[Nickdfresh]

@Rising_Sun

I think I posted this somewhere on the forum many years ago, but my father knew an Australian Army officer who was a POW of the Germans. I’m getting rusty on the details, but essentially the Australian POW was in a train on a siding when a trainload of Waffen SS ended up stopped in a siding (or the main line) while a trainload of Heer infantry ended up stopped on the main line (or in a siding). Verbal abuse between the SS and Heer escalated until the Heer detrained and began setting up firebases with MGs and generally deploying for battle with the SS. Officers on both sides managed to control the situation, but the POW was left with the strong impression that the Heer didn’t have any love for the SS. My recollection is that the SS were going west and the Heer were going east, which suggests that the Heer weren’t happy about having to go into places where the SS had been engaged in various activities which would have resulted in the Heer being very badly treated if they were captured by the Soviets.

It sounds like something that could be rather true. Beevor also wrote that SS formations tended to have the right-of-way in the axis of advance and this caused horrendous traffic jams and may also have aided the American effort to slow the advance and cut-off the Bulge…

[Rising_Sun]

@Nickdfresh

It sounds like something that could be rather true. Beevor also wrote that SS formations tended to have the right-of-way in the axis of advance and this caused horrendous traffic jams and may also have aided the American effort to slow the advance and cut-off the Bulge…

The probability of truth is reinforced by the hierarchies of loyalties / animosities in the armed services.

My section; my platoon; my company; my battalion; etc etc up to my service, e.g. army v navy or air force, against the others.

I know from my own recruit training that company versus company conflict nearly blew up into a full on brawl with every weapon available to us after being stood down for the night, which meant every weapon but no ammunition. As with the SS / Heer anecdote I mentioned, vigorous action by superiors - mostly sergeants and warrant officers (not sure if warrant officer is same in US - here I’m referring to the most senior NCOs who control all NCOs in company and above units / formations e.g. a battalion regimental sergeant major is a fearsome creature who sits at the right hand of the battalion lieutenant colonel and potentially outranks in practice all battalion lieutenants and the occasional captain) averted a significant casualty list.

In WWII and subsequent conflicts it was common in Western, and probably other, armies for conventional infantry units and commanders, especially senior commanders, to look down on special forces type units as some sort of show ponies who got undeserved resources and political / public admiration.

It’s not difficult to see how the same mentality in Germany in WWII could have produced hostility in Heer units towards Waffen SS units, which could have been compounded by the rampant propaganda extolling the supposed superman abilities of the SS.

I’m inclined to suspect that the fascination in some quarters nowadays with the SS flows more from its own propaganda in WWII and nifty uniforms rather than an objective assessment of the SS as soldiers (the SS “soldiers” being those who did a bit more than guard concentration camps etc under the command of their glorious leader, the weedy and bespectacled failed chicken farmer who, oddly enough, never figures as the stereotypical SS “soldier”).

[Chevan]

@navyson

They participate mainly to keep history alive I guess. I’ve thought before about doing reenacting. Same thing, to keep history alive. To have a little glimpse of what my ancestors went through in real life I suppose.

Do you really suppose that the playng the games in uniform and drinking the beers in evening is what our ancestros have passed within the wars? Or this kind of hobby makes us to remember the bloody episodes of history. For me on estern front the each battle was a terrible nighmare which anyone sane want to forget as soon as possible. I mean , we may to discuss the figures, ammunitions weapon and est , enjoing by the nice talk, but non of us , i’m sure woud not want to come back into the atmosphere of total horror where life costs nothing and death in eveywhere- the just another one ordinary battle of ww2. I’m stoopid or limited, but i can’t associate the game with the bloody war:(

[Chevan]

@Rising_Sun

In WWII and subsequent conflicts it was common in Western, and probably other, armies for conventional infantry units and commanders, especially senior commanders, to look down on special forces type units as some sort of show ponies who got undeserved resources and political / public admiration.

Can’t say for the special forces , but during my army service i faced the strong contempt to the logistical services officers from ordinary " combatan" officers. The “food and fuel” services in RA lives traditionally better for resale of stolen from army stores. We called them “rear rats” in most cases deservedly.

[Chevan]

@Rising_Sun

The re-enactors generally didn’t work in the job they re-enact, which is the job the real soldiers did.

Just nothing to add;)

[Nickdfresh]

@Chevan

Do you really suppose that the playng the games in uniform and drinking the beers in evening is what our ancestros have passed within the wars? Or this kind of hobby makes us to remember the bloody episodes of history. For me on estern front the each battle was a terrible nighmare which anyone sane want to forget as soon as possible. I mean , we may to discuss the figures, ammunitions weapon and est , enjoing by the nice talk, but non of us , i’m sure woud not want to come back into the atmosphere of total horror where life costs nothing and death in eveywhere- the just another one ordinary battle of ww2. I’m stoopid or limited, but i can’t associate the game with the bloody war:(

I couldn’t agree more…

I suppose there is some historical relevance that reenactors can contribute, but there is also a romanticist view that skews the actual horrors and stench of death. American Civil War reenactors never actually reenact the hospital part where limbs are sawed off (without much in the way of anesthesia) and just thrown in a pile:

[Chevan]

@Nickdfresh

I couldn’t agree more…
I suppose there is some historical relevance that reenactors can contribute, but there is also a romanticist view that skews the actual horrors and stench of death. American Civil War reenactors never actually reenact the hospital part where limbs are sawed off (without much in the way of anesthesia) and just thrown in a pile:

…and , i’m sure ,they never reenact and restore the scenes of killed by bombing or artillery children and woman - exactly how the real war looks for the real civils.

[Rising_Sun]

@Chevan

…and , i’m sure ,they never reenact and restore the scenes of killed by bombing or artillery children and woman - exactly how the real war looks for the real civils.

Good point!

Lots more civilians were killed in WWII than soldiers, sailors and aviators.

Total civilian deaths in WWII were perhaps three times military deaths, but in some places the ratio was much worse for civilians, as shown by the following table (yeah, I know some of the figures can be debated endlessly, but they’re still a fair indication of who suffered most compared with who suffered least) http://www.nationalww2museum.org/learn/education/for-students/ww2-history/ww2-by-the-numbers/world-wide-deaths.html

[navyson]

@Chevan

Do you really suppose that the playng the games in uniform and drinking the beers in evening is what our ancestros have passed within the wars? Or this kind of hobby makes us to remember the bloody episodes of history. For me on estern front the each battle was a terrible nighmare which anyone sane want to forget as soon as possible. I mean , we may to discuss the figures, ammunitions weapon and est , enjoing by the nice talk, but non of us , i’m sure woud not want to come back into the atmosphere of total horror where life costs nothing and death in eveywhere- the just another one ordinary battle of ww2. I’m stoopid or limited, but i can’t associate the game with the bloody war:(

I don’t know that it’s the battle itself, but my knowledge is limited. I know the reenactors also do living history lessons for interested people. Camp life reenactments before “battles”, camaraderie. Some may enjoy the “battles” themselves maybe. Maybe the American Civil War harkens back to a more chivalrous time? I agree, I wouldn’t be interested in reenacting “battles” from the Eastern Front.