German Torpedo Bombers? What Were they?

So sorry for my protracted silence, honorable ladies and gentlemen, but aforesaid verity is a depressing result of my unalterable official duties and factual dissemination of photographic material connected with this intriguing matter. However, I have finally prepared my answers, so here they are:

Yes, my dear Mr. Pdf 27 - proposed variant 1/b of your statement (capable of carrying out torpedo attacks, but deficient in that role because used in a very limited number) is the most accurate proclamation. :slight_smile:

Putting aside the fact that previously mentioned machine confirmed itself as a fairly durable, obedient aircraft, that behaved very well on water as well as in the air, He 115’s intended use as a torpedo-bomber was always delayed by low – priority which this type constantly enjoyed within boundaries of the German war-production effort. However, a small number of the He 115’s successful combat-activity examples, mainly achieved in mid-1941 and 1942, are sufficiently convincing as evidence that aforementioned type represented a capable, potentially usable, although not sufficiently protected naval attacker, especially helpful against Allied merchant vessels.

Having usually only 15 fully operational machines, regularly flown by crews of the 1./ KuFlGr 406 and 1./Ku.Fl.Gr. 906 from the available hydro-bases in Kirkennes, Stavanger and Tromsø, He 115C’s were, for example, best used against Allied convoys on the Murmansk route in bad weather conditions, in circumstances when “classicist” level and diving bombers were incapable even to start on their combat missions.

He 115 is launching her torpedo against unidentified allied freighter, British Channel - 1940

For example, on July 4, 1942 a single He 115 flown by experienced commanding officer of the 1./Ku.Fl.Gr. 906, Hptm. Eberhard Peukert successfully torpedoed US freighter “Christopher Newport” under almost impossible flying conditions. Using low clouds and fog over the up-welling, turbulent cold waters, with his engines turned off, he carried over his airplane in completely unobserved shallow dive toward that ill-fated ship, and achieved a direct hit!

Do you happen to know if the bomb which failed against the deck armour of Rodney was an armour piercing one…

Alas, my dear Mr Pdf 27 – I don’t know! The final answer to this dilemma still remains up in the air. :frowning:

You see, the only direct piece of information connected with this thorny issue is a pretty brief annotation written by a prominent naval historian S. W. Roskill in his outstanding, indeed colossal work “The war at sea”, 1939-1945. - Her Majesty’s Stationery Office, 1961. - (Vol. I, p. 48), which described aforementioned occurrence with these words: “Battleship Rodney was struck by a 500 kilogram bomb which failed to penetrate the armour belt and caused only injuries to Paymaster Midshipman W. R. H. Lapper, Commissioned Gunner F. G. Roper, Midshipman J. C. S. Wright, seven ratings.”

Alas, type of the bomb was not mentioned.

However, your remark about the factual effectivity of the Luftwaffe in the Norwegian campaign deserves just one tiny, but – as always – completely historically proven observation.

You see, bearing on mind the fact that heroic American destroyer Laffey (DD – 724), commissioned February 8, 1944, which participated in the D-day landings of Allied troops at Normandy four months latter, when transferred to the Pacific was crashed by five Japanese Kamikaze planes, and additionaly directly hit by three bombs during one single hour on April 16, 1945 off Okinawa - was not only kept afloat by her gallant crew, but even capable to shoot down eleven enemy planes during the attack, and comparing these results with a pretty skinny (four German airplanes downed by AA fire) effect of the whole British naval combat group… well, I think that fighting capabilities of the belligerent forces back there in 1940were… pretty well balanced. :slight_smile:

More critically expressed, the main misalignment in that previously mentioned evaluation of yours is embedded in factual neglection of a practical strength of the applied German airpower. Were the British naval forces - indeed impressive, both quantitatively and qualitatively! - faced by a force in the air as overwhelming as allied on the sea, British job would have been much more difficult. Allow me, please, just a very brief explanation.

You see, I have to admit that I was almost shocked by the fact that Germans, for example, although the Luftwaffe amassed more than 1000 machines for the operation, only partially used the most effective aerial anti-ship weapon that was available: the Ju 87.

Furthermore – more than 350 additional, combat-ready level bombers were completely available as well, but still unused in this operation, because German operational airdrome capacity was severely overstrung. The Do 17, for example, the mostly used middle-seized bomber Germany had at the beginning of the war, was completely unexploited in the Norwegian campaign! And yes - I completely do agree with you, my dear Mr. Pdf 27 - that verity essentially represented a tactical and planning pretermission that was fairly and squarely committed by the OKW.

While the bulk of the Luftwaffe units which have participated in operation Weserübung, for example, started from their north-German bases at dawn on 9 April 1940, the only Stukagruppe (40 airplanes only!) to participate in the campaign against Norway - those Ju 87 R machines within the I Gruppe St.G. 1 under command of captain Paul-Werner Hozzel - was not ordered to take off until 10.59!

Even then, instead of participation in a coordinated, joint attack against British naval forces, their target was previously totally neglected, and nowadays superbly famous fortress of Oscarsborg, and later on that same day (at 12.15 H) Norwegian positions at Ackershus, with the bombings carried out throughout the whole day till 17.30, and with a lull of one hour between 13.00 and 14.00 hours. In the very same time when the British ships were already under heavy aerial attacks! The Ju 87s were in the role of a ground attackers, and not anti-shipping airplanes, although the good old Stuka was the most effective weapon in the Luftwaffe’s armory carrying out the anti-ship sorties.

Ju 87 above the Norwegian coast, April 1940.

Being returned to their new, provisory and unsystematically forwarded airfield at Aarhus in Danmark, airplanes of the I. Gruppe St.G 1 were aloft again that same afternoon, this time heading not across the 250 km of the Skagerrak back to the still unfinished work at Oscarsborg, but out over the open sea in search of elements of the disengaged Royal Navy’s Home Fleet! Of course, as the British ships, previously exposed to fierce attacks of the KG 30 and KG 26 and with practically empty AAA ammo-storages, were at this time too far off, Hozel was instructed to turn back and to land in Norway at the Stavanger-Sola airfield. Indeed beautiful example of the completely unproductive tactics!

Aforementioned unit, however, demonstrated almost perfect case in point of unexploited tactical “Could-Have-Beens” on that very day, when – by pure serendipity! – JU 87’s encountered a lonely Norwegian torpedo-boat Aeger. Poor vessel was successfully, unproblemaically attacked, and only the vicinity of the Norwegian coastline saved the unfortunate crew – ship was conveniently stranded and scuttled by her illustrious captain.

So sorry, honorable ladies and gentlemen - forced brake of the post: that well-known message is again here in front of me! (The text that you have entered is too long (15672 characters). Please shorten it to 10000 characters long.)

OK - here we go… :roll:

VOL. II

Factual anti-ship capabilities of the Ju 87, as well as penetration qualities of the PC 500 against medium-sized protective armor covering are perhaps best illustrated with the following example. On 11 January 1941, HMS Southampton, accompanied by HMS Gloucester at position some 220 miles east of the Sicilian coast came under attack of the II/St.G. 2 with 35 Ju-87s. The Group Commander, Major Werner Ennecerus, led the planes.

Direct hit of the PC 500 scored upon HMS Southampton, January 1941

Southampton received two direct 500 kg bomb hits: the first detonated in the wardroom and the second in the officer’s mess. Huge fires broke out and isolated some of the control for flooding the magazines, rendering the situation immediately critical. After 4 hours of fruitless efforts to bring the conflagration under control, HMS Southampton was abandoned at 19.00 H.

Conclusively, Weserübung aerial operations are representing the first tangible proof of the ascendancy of airpower over seapower. Standardized claims that the Luftwaffe was inadequate to stop a full-scale attack by the RN willing to take losses always will be countered by the fact that the RN never attempted to actually test this thesis by carrying out their proposed decisive incursion into Bergen or the direct assault on Trondheim - mainly because of the German airpower.

In this sense, the Luftwaffe played a decisive role during the campaign, conscientiously curtailing Britannia’s command of the waves. Its effectiveness against warships operating without sufficient air support would be more than adequately demonstrated a year later at Crete, where the Royal Navy would suffer an even worse ordeal at the hands of German dive-bombers while endeavoring to evacuate allied troops from the island.

But that theme, my dear Mr. Pdf 27 is a completely different, independent story, completely unconnected with our main theme in this thread…:wink:

Did Fliegercorps X have it’s specialist anti-shipping role at this point in time?

No, my dear Mr. Pdf 27- as far as I know factual specialization arrived at a much later time, more precisely in the Year of our Lord one thousand nine hundred and forty one.

Panzerknacker got it right, the Ju-88a-18 and a sub type of He-111H series were main German types torpedo planes…

Excuse me, my dear Mr. Slong 63, but a specialized torpedo-bomber version of the famous Ju 88 was the A-17 variant. With a reduced crew to three, equipped with a pair of PVC racks, each one capable to carry one LF5 torpedo, and with a redesigned forward fuselage – additional large bulge on the starboard side that contained pre-launch torpedo guidance mechanism – this airplane was mainly used by the KG 28.

Ju 88 A-17

There are several ww2 and ww2 in color dvd sets out,show German torpedo planes with training torpedos,and one dramatic color (10 sec.) of actual Sm-79 attack

Oh, there is a plethora of pretty unknown black&white snapshots connected with bold Aerosiluranti torpedo-attacks too, my dear Mr. Slong 63. Here you have one definitely beautiful example:

Torpedo-attack of the Savoia – Marchetti SM 79 Sparviero, April 1941

And yes – here is another one B&w photo-rarity connected with the best Italian WW2 hidroplane, developed from a design of Ing. Filippo Zappata, fabricated almost entirely out of wood, which immediately gained eight world records in speed… An aircraft of excellent qualities, capable to cary out torpedo attacks, to withstand enormusly severe damages, machine with a skillfully streamlined fuselage, and a piece of military equipment that was capable to save 213 human beings, regardless to their nationality and origin – to rescue 167 italians, 16 Germans, 37 Britons and 11 Frenchman. One and only Cant Z 506 Airone:

Cant Z 506 Airone, Sicily – 1943

And now, honorable ladies and gentlemen, we should be obliged to examine an additional German airplane that is hardly ever associated with a torpedo-bombing operations, the least known of the trio of German twin-engined torpedo-bombers, a truly multipurpose aircraft, with roles ranging from long-range reconnaissance, bombing, dive-bombing, torpedo-bombing, anti shipping missile attacks and a wartime service as a day and night fighter – a truly unique Dornier Do 217.

Do 217

Although total production of the Do 217 in all previously mentioned variants numbered 1905 machines only, it is almost completely forgotten that the first aircrafts used operationally were employed in a recconaisance role as early as 1940.

The initial “A” model, equipped with DB 601 engines, was succeeded by the “E” model which featured more powerful BMW 801 radial air-cooled engines. With a bomb-load having a total weight of 3000 kilograms, equipped with one MG 151 cannon and five MG 15 machine guns, Rb 21 cameras, Lotfe 7A level-bombsight (an advanced mechanical system similar to the US’s Norden, but much simpler to operate and maintain) Revi C 12 reflex sight, which could be used both as a gun sight and as a dive-bombing sight, Do 217 C multi-role aircraft took his first flying hours in september of 1940 under the command of captain Carl-Heinz Huber, but the first bomber unit to be equipped with this type (II/KG 40) was not formed until the spring of 1941.

Do 217 E somewhere along the Holland coast, 1942

The equipment of the Do 217 was capable of being supplemented to suit the various operational requirements, simply by the instalation of additional, specialized fittings. These fittings included guns and bomb carriers, photographic cameras and equipment, as well as supplementary fuel tanks. The first specialized anti-ship variant of this airplane was the E-2 version, with two additional 750 liters fuel tanks in the bomb bay, MG FF 20 mm cannon, and with PVC racks located on the under-surfaces of the both wings, outboard of the engine nacelles. This particular model became a first factual multirole platform, utilized for various reconnaissance and bomber roles, including that of torpedo-bomber for anti-ship duty and in its E-5 variant compatible even with the notorious Henschel Hs 293 missile.

He 217 K-1 equipped with two LT F5, II/KG2, Deelen, 1943

In almost every way, the Do 217 was a technical success. It could carry a much heavier bombload than either the He 111 or the Ju 88. It was also very fast, surpassing both previously mentioned aircraft in maximum speed, being Germany’s largest bomber for nearly two years until the Heinkel He 177 was finally safe enough to be used. Production unhurriedly continued, although in surprisingly small numbers, especially if we consider that this machine obviously outclassed by its speed and bomb carrying capacity the He-111 and Ju-88 as a simple level bombers.

Well, that’s all for today, honourable ladies and gentlemen. In the mantime, as always – all the best! :wink:

Cheers Librarian, as always I’m impressed by the depth of research you put in. Couple of points:

  1. Comparing late war US Destroyers with anything British or German earlier in the war is a bit misleading - the damage control systems and procedures they had in place were incomparably better than anyone else ever managed, while their radar fire control coupled with the 5"/38 gun and proximity fuse gave them an anti-aircraft ability comparable to a 1939 battleship.
  2. Going by what you’ve written down, it looks like the only effective anti-shipping weapon of the Luftwaffe in summer/autumn 1940 was the Stuka. Going by the Dunkirk and Crete evacuations, these aircraft were sufficient to hurt but not stop the RN, and suffered badly when opposed by modern fighter aircraft.

Just confirmed a few things I thought about the German forces in 1940, but it’s always nice to check things like that.

My source is not 100 % realible but it seems that until 1942 the torpedo attacks skills of the german Luftwaffe were very limited, is one of the few arts in wich they were surpassed by the italians.

Direct hit of the PC 500 scored upon HMS Southampton, January 1941

Nice pic.

My latest upload, the sturdy Heinkel 115:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osaFJAmZurA

Luftwaffe Torpedo Operations 1936-40.

The first operation use of airborne torpedoes by the Luftwaffe was in the Spanish Civil War. From mid 1936 a small number of Heinkel He 59 seaplanes served with the Seeflieger Gruppe AS/88 of the Condor Legion, operating from the island of Majorca. This unit was operational until the spring of 1939, and during this time launched a number of airborne torpedoes in combat. However due to problems with the LT F5 torpedo only one was successful. An attack on the British merchant ship Thropeness (4,700 GRT) which on the night of 21st July 1938 was entering the Spanish port of Valencia loaded with grain. At the time it was claimed by the Spanish Nationalists that this ship had been sunk by a mine.

By the start of WW2, the Seeflieger possessed 30 operational He 59s in four Staffeln. At this time the He 115 was starting to come into service, but due to the fragility of the LT F5 torpedo it couldn’t be carried, as the He 115 couldn’t fly slow enough, without stalling, to release the LT F5 torpedo successfully.
From October 1939 the few He 59s flew a limited number of torpedo operations against Allied shipping, but the only success recorded by He 59s using torpedoes in WW2 was the sinking of the British fishing steamer, Active (185 GRT) on the 18 December 1939.

In March 1940 with technical improvements to the LT F5 torpedo (including a new rudder) the He 115 was made operational with this torpedo, replacing the He 59 in the role, though the torpedo was still far from satisfactory, as it still required the He 115 to fly as slow and low as it possibly could, and even then failures were common.
Over the next few months due to limited available supplies of the torpedo (135 in March) few operations were undertaken.
In July 1940 the only operational airborne torpedo Staffel ready for action was 3/Ku.Fl.Gr 506 based at Stavanger, to be followed by 1./Ku.Fl.Gr 106 from mid August based at Norderney

From August as other He 115 torpedo attack units became operational, combat sorties increased though the limited number of torpedoes available was always a problem ( in September the figure was down to 38 at one point)
The first successes of the He 115 units may have been the sinking of Llanishen (5,035 GRT) and the Makalla (6,680 GRT) of Convoy CA 203 in the Moray Firth on the 23 August 1940, but some sources put their loss down to bombs not torpedoes.
The first confirmed success of He 115 torpedo bombers was the sinking of the Remuera (11,445 GRT) by Ku.Fl.Gr 506 on the 26 August 1940.

Over the next 4 months until the end of the year the Luftwaffe used about 160 airborne torpedoes in operations against British shipping in Northern waters, Luftwaffe claims were high (one unit alone, 3./Ku.Fl.Gr 506 was credited with sinking 124,000 GRT) but when checked against British losses, Luftwaffe torpedo bombers probably sank a total of 7 or 8 Allied merchant ships of around 50-60,000 GRT in 1940.

During this period there were attempts to use both the He 111 and Ju 88 in the torpedo bomber role, but due to problems with inter service rivalry, and the LT F5 torpedo, none became operational in 1940, though the He 111 did become operational as a torpedo bomber in early 1941.

Source for the facts and figures used in this article
Luftwaffe Aerial Torpedo Aircraft and Operations in World War II, by Harold Thiele

Nice read.

Video of torpedo test by the Arado AR 95.

YouTube - Arado AR 95, pruebas de torpedo