Because Hitler was a lunatic maybe?
Lunacy explains a lot of things in your case, but try reading some books.
SS-Master is correct with many of his points. Remember he is commenting on events during Barbarossa that effected the outcome of the battle.
Of course pre Barbarossa actions contributed to the delay and eventual outcome, but it was largely the weather and Soviet resistance which eventually defeated the Germans at the gates of Moscow.
Let us just say there there were many, many, many issues which led to the failure of Barbarossa.
Regards digger.
i believe Manstein himself said the reason barbarossa was so succesful in the first few months with mass encirclements etc. is because the soviets were not in defensive positions but were massed for the offensive and were utterly shellshocked and demoralised when the germans pre emptive attack took them by suprise this gave them no time to recover and the `invasion forces1 were largely destroyed with this in mind god only knows what would have happened if the soviets invaded first … the germans invaded them just in the nick of time
I heard this all before, but I’ve yet to see any actual scholarly evidence that the Soviets were on the verge of invading Germany.
The Red Army was “shocked and demoralized” because it was not as prepared as the world had been led on to believe, and in no small part due to Stalin’s purges of able, experienced commanders…
(Nick hides under table in flame-proof suit waiting for the angry Russian counterattack.)
I would be very reserved about german generals saying this (soviets were massed for offensive) - because Hitler really needed some justification for his attack - and so did the generals after the war was over.
Sure, Soviet Union “conquered” many countries pre 1941 summer, and most likely they would have continued their “offensives” in the not-so-near-future. But there really hasn’t been any “solid” evidence that they planned attacking any time soon.
One problem (just one, there were many) with the soviet formation is that they were relocated from their inland defence line to the new border, so they didn’t have prepared airfields/barracks/depots, and that alone forced them to take locations/positions that weren’t really “this-or-that”.
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The biggest thing was the fact that Hitler attack Russia and thus caused a war that only cost him trouble. Hitler loved big stuff and thus did not think of masses but only how bigger they are the better. The whole U-Boat warfare was only great in the early stages of the war when the Allies did not have any thing to deal with the U-Boats.
The war in the sky was poorly done in the sense that Hitler did not see the potential of the Me-262 and only wanted bombers. The medium bombers Germany had did not do the job as it was thought of and thus cost him the war over UK.
The fact that the German secret service was not great enough to be great.
All in all Hitler thought he could fight the war only with his thoughts and power, but he thought so much of himself that he did not care what other people think and got rid of all the other people that did not want to listen to him.
Attempting a war on two opposing fronts and always developing the next “Wonder Weapon” or one uping the last weapon, wasting valuable resources and material.
And let’s face it, the person was crazy. He insisted that France sign and meet in the very same train that Germany had allowed themselves to surrender to the Allies in WWI. Actually dragging it out of a building to the very same spot just to humiliate France for the ultimate revenge.
Jeff
Nicki how many times to repeate for you - there was rather positive resault of Purge then negative one.
Instead of the so called “experenced commander” like idiots Tuhachevskij, Jakir, Bluher and others…who made a quick carier in Army mostly rather to the their political orientation then their combat experience.
Instead there were realized the place in Army for such great commanders like Rokossovskij, Konev , Chyikov and Cherniahovskiy ( who was killed in the beginning of the 1945 in Prussia).
WTF “experienced commanderd” you talk about?
What was way they could get the experience from?
Any commanders who HAD A REAL combat experience untill the ww2 kinda Zukov ( Halkin-gol 1938), in Spain 1936-38 or in the Winter war have survived of Purge and continie to fight agains germans in the 1941.
Except the few high rank idiots who were responsible for the lack of winter ammunition in Finland.
(Nick hides under table in flame-proof suit waiting for the angry Russian counterattack.)
I’m sorry, but the effects on the ground say differently. And some of those purged commanders had fought in the civil war, did they not?
Since when did the Goons start broadcasting in Russia?
…the Kriegsmarine had too few U-Boats and surface ships, the Luftwaffe had no strategic bombers and the Heer was still a walking Army with only a very small portion of it mechanized.
Hitler felt like his Wehrmacht could win a short war which it did. By May 1940 Germany had conquered all of Western and Central Europe so the shortcomings of his armed forces were not shown until the Battle of Britain in August 1940 when the Luftwaffe’s lack of heavy bombers and incorrect strategy cost German a chance of bringing England to peace.
By the way, German did not declare war on the Soviet Union. In fact he never declared war on any victim states, Poland, nor the Soviet Union. He just attacked. When Britain and France declared war on German, Hitler followed suite.
Hitler and his General Staff greatly underestimated the great strength of the USSR and their ability to sustain a long war of attrition. Again, a short war (by October at the latest) was envisioned but the Russian winter bogged the Wehrmacht down at the gates of Moscow. Then the truly fatal error occurred, switching Army Group Center (or half of it) to the South to capture Soviet oil fields in the Caucasus.
It is truly remarkable that Japan did not take advantage of Soviet ground preoccupation in Europe to attack in Manchuria but Zhukov’s overhwelming victory at Khalkin Gol made the Imperial Japanese Army eternally reluctant to take the Red Army again.
Overall, had Germany been industrially mobilized and had equipped her military sufficiently for battle, things might have gone better for a while, but the Allies would have overwhelmed her no matter what. 
:twisted::twisted:I hawe voted…“declare war to U.R.S.S.” becuse ef he did not declare war to U.R.S.S. the germans wood attack U.S.A and the from the right and U.R.S.S. from the left and the U.S.A . was crashd …but history we can not change…but ef I was in command of the german army i wood allay whit U.R.S.S. and every contry i can and i wood bring down All the warld…but dat’s only ef i was the ledar…:twisted::twisted:
Hitlers biggest mistake other than starting the war was invading the USSR. Its eye opening to read all the responses that say that Germany could have taken the USSR if only they started earlier, taken Leningrad etc… The point is, they would never have been able to occupy it for too long w/out taking huge losses from the inevitable resistance movment that would have mobilized the defeated Red army into a huge militia.
The USSR is simply too massive to have been occupied by a much smaller (but powerful) Germany
Lot of votes so far, 139, so I just wanted to regroup my views
“Declaring war on the U.S.S.R.”: Hitler wanted to create a true worldpower (selfsufficient to avoid effect of sieges etc), to do that he needed large amounts of natural resources, only “continentally” available in the Soviet Union. So, I cannot see attacking USSR a mistake, considering his target, he needed to attack.
“Declaring war on the United States”: In short term (handful of years) stupid thing to do. But let’s see what happens (one possibility) if Hitler doesn’t declare war on US: With superior military production US conquers Japans and soon controls Asia. That would pretty much mean that US controls 2/3 (asia, america) of the world - and thus US is way too powerful to beat anymore. How to avoid that: Split US forces of course. And that can be done by declaring war on US, forcing US to split it’s military forces in two.
“Giving Rommel and other top military generals the Death Penalty”: He should have killed Rommel and other overhyped loser-generals immediately ;-D But remembering how many solid-good generals and leaders Germany had, I cannot see this really having a major effect – unless someone like Manstein is given total control of the warware.
“Not taking the British out early in the war”: Problem: there wasn’t one quick way to do that (too small navy, etc). And considering how long it took for Britain to do anything (and even then it was mainly US effort) it’s hard to claim that this was the biggest mistake.
“Not properly preparing Germany for the war ahead”: So, Hitler was about to attack one the biggest nations on the earth, and it seemed that he was about to face the biggest (US) in the (near) future. So why the heck were german women at home doing nothing, and why was the german production still making a loooot of (even luxury) civilian products (reason for that is most likely that Hitler didn’t want the homefront to lose it’s spirit during wartime - like it did during WW1), why weren’t universities etc combed thoroughly for men fit enough to serve in armed forces, why were the long-term military development projects stopped … Okay, I can see that he wanted to keep the life in the Reich normal (and happy) even during the war, but the risk he was taking was mind-boggling: failure to destroy the Soviet Union during the first or the second year would mean every “accomplishment” of Hitler would have been wiped out in the coming years. And this mistake is so stupid because German industry was something completely in German control - I mean, US could have declared war on Nazi Germany, Britain may have accepted peace at some point… these things are not purely in German hands. But industry was, and Hitler decided that Reich needed pantyhoses and panzers - not just panzers and more panzers.
If you look at the production number for german tanks you see the lost opportunity: In 1941 PzIV production averaged 39 per month, peaking at 300 per month in mid-1944. So, Hitler started the barbarossa with 10%-20% of the max. Mistake.
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Alepph, Germany attacked the Soviet Union for her resources and living space (liebensraum) without doubt. However, he also did it for the worst reason imaginable: to wipe out all Slavic races. He did this using the excuse of Communism (which he despised) but it was the people he wished to kill. Only Aryan’s had the right to live and enjoy life. All others needed to die or act as slave laborers. Just ask the Poles, Czechs, Russians and all the others the Germans tried to kill.
You seem to have also come to the belief that if the United States defeated Japan, she would hold all of Asia and become too strong for Germany to attack. I am afraid your geopolitics are a bit distorted. Victory in the Pacific over Japan did not mean a new American empire with which to rival that of Germany. Not only Rommel but Guderian came to see Hitler as a lunatic. Would you have shot him as well, the father of modern Panzer tactics?
Wiping out other races and unfit people was pretty common way to think in 1930s and 1940s – and US continued it after World War II.
But even if Hitler ranted about it (and sometimes Hitler privately talked very differently from his public speeches), I do not think that it was a major motivation to attack - for example - he basically never expressed desires to conquer Africa, which would have been a logical target since it was filled with ‘unfit’.
In America: Some states sterilized “imbeciles” for much of the 20th century. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the 1927 Buck v. Bell case that the state of Virginia could sterilize those it thought unfit. The most significant era of eugenic sterilization was 1907-1963, when over 64,000 individuals were forcibly sterilized under eugenic legislation in the US. A favorable report on the results of sterilization in California, was published in book form by the biologist Paul Popenoe and was widely cited by the Nazi government as evidence that wide-reaching sterilization programs were feasible and humane. When Nazi administrators went on trial for war crimes in Nuremberg, they justified the mass sterilizations by citing the United States as their inspiration.
I’m not talking about “new American empire”, I’m talking about control.
Ever since the US conquered Japan, American forces have stayed in Asia. And anyone trying to conquer Asia will immediately face American forces. If all those American forces wouldn’t be there, anyone conquering Asia would not, at least immediately, face American troops. Anyone who has troops anywhere, is in very good position to control the natural resources in that area (or destroy them in the case of withdrawal).
Or are you somehow suggesting that having large amount of American battle ready troops in Asia does not advance American’s position as a worldpower - and America would be bigger/stronger worldpower with all American troops back to Missouri?
Of course everybody thinks Hitler is lunatic. What that has to do with anything? Focus.
And having read most books by and about Guderian, I still think that he was overhyped “it’s all about me, look how pretty I am” - type, who never even became a field marshal and who was infamous for his ability to not follow orders ;-D
Several German generals had ideas about different armoured vehicles and their use (Manstein with Sturmgeschütz and so on…), and many talked about them, or wrote articles about… So, Guderian happened to be in Truppenamt group, and wrote a book about it, and Hitler happened to like it. Had he not been in Truppenamt, he most likely have wrote how horses are the weapons of the future.
And what is “Achtung - Panzer!” – a compilation of the ideas of persons of armored and combined-arms warfare within the general staff.
And I’m always amused how Guderian is pretty much the only German general getting beaten in the first years of the war. For example in 1941 he’s beaten by the same way twice when marching to Moscow - oh, and it’s useless try to find anything about he’s losses in his books. He’s just skipping most the negative things, and focusing telling how groovy, fabulous, and jolly he was.
And try to read about the crisis in the winter of 1941-1942. Other generals are busy trying to save their men: Guderian is complaining and bitching to his superiors. Other generals are busy trying to organize better supply: Guderian is writing letters to complain and moan in different way to different people. And try to guess why he was transferred during WW1? Too much complaining and bitching.
In 1965 Bundeswehr considered naming Army barrracks after Guderian - many did comment that it was unsuitable because his behaviour was not always exemplary - to put it nicely.
I think that Guderian was a good General, but not great. Just my humble opinion of course, but I think it’s good to try to grasp the both sides of everything/everyone.
And all this has of course been about what and why Hitler did (not reflecting what I think (except here I’m offering one, a bit different, view to Guderian ;-D)) – but you are turning this into a personal by asking “Would you have shot Guderian as well?”
Well, first thing they teach in military is that it’s a huge machine, which cannot function if persons do not obey commands. Having general Guderian running around ignoring commands - and huge pile of good/solid German generals in stock - I may have been tempted to sign the order to “immobilize” Guderian – alternative use for him would have been to send him to US to complain about stuff ;-D
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In your humble opinion, Alephh, why did Germany lose the Second World War? I am wondering since you are refuting all the reasons asked for in the poll. Please advise. I also did not know that Hitler was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 1939 by a Swede.
Alephh, on topic is the way ahead in any discussion at WW2IC. Off topic is of course allowed, just remember this thread is entitled Hitlers Biggest Mistake. Cheers…
Many reasons of course… But, IMO, the biggest mistake was: “Not properly preparing Germany for the war ahead.”
Sorry if my replies are not always clear (kinda difficult to type long reply quickly without losing my line of thought… or without using way too many parenthesis ;-)).
In previous post I tried to point out that for a dictator with all the power, Hitler took public opinion very seriously, and therefore didn’t want to lower morale by fully converting economy to military production. I see the reasons why he didn’t do it, but it’s still a huge mistake.
Since Hitler spoke/wrote about getting lebensraum (=natural resources) from the 1920s (and obviously by using the force), he really should have prepared the economy for it (something that was completely in his own control). With the soviet union conquered and population “calmed down” (most likely in very brutal manner) Nazi Germany would have had enough natural resources to have a fighting chance against UK/US.
Even if Hitler felt that Wehrmacht was great and the Red Army was inefficient, he was still taking a mind-blowing risk: He could have relatively easily doubled german military production before the Operation Barbarossa to “play it safe”.
To speculate more about the situation after the victory over the Soviet Union… Since Fritz Kolbe leaked (of course not early in the war, but later) most top nazi secrets to Allen Dulles, US would have been well informed about the new strength of the Nazi economy and all the divisions moved from east to west. That would have placed US in very difficult position: Invasion would have been very costly, maybe too costly, militarily and/or politically. And thinking about the size of the Reich (lot of areas safe from allied bombing) and how determined Hitler was not to surrender, even Atomic weapons may have been not enough to stop the war (resulting most likely a counterstrike to UK with V2s armed with chemical-weapons, and if ready, counterstrike to US with A9/A10, with germs).
So many german problems/“mistakes” were caused by the lack of resources:
- Germany didn’t have big (enough) navy to beat UK: there just wasn’t enough resources to build all the military arms at the same time.
- Germany didn’t have heavy long range bombers: There wasn’t enough oil for that.
- Not enough u-boats to strangle UK economy and keep US behind the ocean: there wasn’t enough resources.
- Development of many “wonderweapons” was stopped after the war started because there wasn’t enough resources for everything. For example with enough resources the development of A9/A10 (intercontinental missile) may have not been stopped and it may have been available to use against US at some stage of the war (one more reason for US not to use atomic-bomb against Nazi Germany and seek for peace).
Does that clear things up, or am I just making it more fuzzy
More military production before 1942; use that strength to conquer the Soviet Union; use the vast soviet natural resources for military development; build huge numbers of u-boats (clear the seas), me-262s (clear the skies), A9/A10s (threat to US). At least it would give Nazi Germany a chance.
If we really want to play around with ideas and Hitler’s mistakes… After he was sworn in as Chancellor in Jan 1933, he should have supported the White House Putsch to overthrow the presidency of FDR in 1933 (isn’t it a major mistake to miss his chance to make US a fascist country ;-D). Of course, that would have required really really deep understanding of US, something Hitler didn’t possess.
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