Given that there were genuine (and not completely unfounded) fears that the Russians would just keep going when they met the other allies, it seems fairly likely that one of the reasons for dropping the bombs was to scare the bejeezus out of Ivan.
From memory, it turned out postwar (possibly quite recently actually) that the surrender feelers were completely unauthorised and the diplomat sending them out (in Moscow IIRC) almost certainly couldn’t have delivered a surrender anyway. Thus, even if they were meant as a symbol of US power they worked in their nominal task of shocking the Japanese into surrendering.
Why would anyone in the decision-making corps of the Allied high command believe anything perpetrated by the Japaneze with a history like they had which made Pearl Harbor into a surprise attack after the translation debacle in Washington? Why believe they were serious for peace when EVERY island from Guadalcanal on through to Okinawa was turned into a no-surrender blood bath by the Japanese themselves owing to their stubborn attitude of inflicting as much damage as possible on the enemy with no regard for their own lives? Why believe seemingly half-hearted peace feelers not even sent directly at the USA when Allied intell showed massive hostile build up and fortification of Kyushu?
Knowing now in post-war times that Hirohito interviened in the War Council tie to continue the war and send out peace feelers simply doesn’t validate things. Assorted persona in the 3rd Reich did the same thing and all such querries were sumarily rejected. Why would the Allied command do the opposite and embrace a half baked querry of peace by the Japaneze?
The intell that the Allies missed revealed in the immediate post-war times that we’d sorely UNDERestimated the stockpiled raw materials, supplies, weapons, complexity of fortifcation, underground production facilities, manpower already in place to make a last stand to the last man.
It just doesn’t matter about any perceived or imagined morality issues of the A-bomb use when we ABSOLUTELY know that the alternative outcomes would have resulted in the worse bloodbath ever recorded and Soviet fingers in the pie that took over 40 years to overcome in Eastern Europe.
For those that wish to make knee-jerk reactions and lament the many that were nuked it is fine as long as we keep in perspective that it is simply opinion only. Relentless study of the complex ingredients will show all but the most prejudiced that the bombs ultimately saved an extensive number of human lives.
Topic moved here from European Theater
Thank’s Gen.
I note this interesting thread only now.
Gentlemens , i am got a shock
You are practically all justify this unhuman mass murdering. 
How can it to name the burning at least 150 000 peoples ( and about 20% of them were the children) as “showing of terrible power of A-bomb” or " as saving a millions lives"?!
As you know a total number of victims of A-bombing of Japane is over 500 000 ( including died from radiation consequences after the war).
This is the one of worst war crime of WW2.
How many people would have died had the bombs were not dropped?
I am sorry the bombs were ever dropped and maybe it should be looked at as a crime but however war is war and people die. Dont like getting bombed … stop starting wars then. Im sorry but in the global perspective it saved lives. More people would have died if those bombs had not been dropped.
Reminder…Even after the bombs were dropped we didnt get a unconditional surrender from the japanese. Emperor stayed on the throne! So im sure japan would have thrown everything into the defense of their homeland and many more on all sides would have died. I hate to agree with them but as far as saving live I cant disagree.
The only way to win is to not go to war. God “War games” is an awesome movie 
Well, there are some rather interesting statements from some that effectively deny the Holocaust, and fail to equate the crimes of Stalin as War Crimes, since by reasonable standard --he, a large proportion of the Communist Party SU, and the NKVD should bear responsibility for their “war-crimes” or “crimes against humanity” rather than just cherry-picking out more horrific actions of the Western Allies: such as Hiroshima and Dresden. But we’ll leave that all aside.
You can make arguments (as I have) that the invasion of Japan (the overall Operation Downfall) would have been easier and had resulted in fewer U.S. casualties proportionally than they suffered in the island-hopping campaign, because the terrain of the home islands (the Tokyo plain) was more favorable to armor and massed firepower than were the mountainous, jungle covered Pacific atolls and islands. But, an amphibious invasion of Japan was fraught with many more complications than even the D-Day Normandy landings were.
The difference being that the Japanese knew exactly where the the Anglo-American landings were to take place (Operation Olympic -the initial landings on Kyushu) since there was only one suitable area for landings, and concentrated an enormous amount of resources to exacting as many casualties as possible. This included Kamikazes that may well have had a better chance to sink fully loaded troops ships than they did to hit a carrier in the open sea, since the troops ships would have been sitting targets stuffed into a large bay. Not to mention a large proportion of the Japanese population not only would have fought to the death, but many civilians were prepared to kill their own children (as they had at Okinawa) rather than submit to the “cannibal-rapist” Americans, as falsely depicted in their propaganda.
And a second factor that that Atom bomb second-guessers also tend to miss is that the chance of a nuclear war was greatly reduced by the horrors, many of which were unforeseen by the U.S. planners, and the aftermath.
If there had been no Hiroshima or Nagasaki, there may fuck-well have been a Moscow, New York City, London, Peking, Berlin, Leningrad, and/or Tokyo by 1965! Something to chew on kiddies.
Here Here
Not so far we had the simular discussion
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3667
Please , read this attentively.
And about “million saved lives”
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/aug2005/hiro-a08.shtml
I don’t fully support the World Socialist movement, but this article could be interested for everybody.
The European war was aready over when the bombs were dropped, and the US and British had already downsized their armies in this theater.
I’ve noticed that you tend to over use the expression ‘war crime’.
If an act didn’t break the then existing rules of war, and the use of A-Bombs on Japanese cities didn’t, you cannot call them ‘war crimes’.
You can state that you think they were wrong to have used them, and you could state that the use of A-bombs on cities should be made a war crime, but you cannot state that these were war crimes.
Agree, debatable as it are, polemic as it may be, is not a war crime “per se”.
Remember Nanking in 1937 …? that was crime, perpetrated by japaneses. :neutral:
have you forgoten the fire storms that killed many more people and also destroyed more citys.It all depends on which side you are on,if you are on the americans side then tink how many thousands of men would have dies to take japan by force,and with the japaneses fanatical belifes in honor all of those civilians and more and their soldiers would have died anyway.Sugest you read the book “Death is light as a feather” by David Westheimer it goes in to what would have happend if the americans trted to invade japan.
My “tend to over use expression ‘war crime’” …?
I know you are not along time in this forum, and spesially for you repeat - i am comsider just ‘two worst thing of allies’ as war crime -Fire Storm tactic in Europe and A-bombing of Japane.
And i try consequentally defend my point,using the information and oppinion of some professional historians.
But this is absolutly don’t mean that i refuse the nazi and japanes war crime in this war.
We remember about Nankin, also we remember about Batan island ("road of death ") were were died at least 20 000 of americans POWs.
Also we remember a cruel execution of american pilots and POW in Japane.
But what then?
Is this could be the justification of burning alive peoples in Japanes cities?..
I want to tell you one story…
In july of 1945 the japanece prime-minister send to the Stalin a telegramm.
In diplomatic language Japanece asked a possibility USSR’s assistence in futured capitulation of Japane. They puted just the single condition: saved the monarchy institute in Japane.
They exellently knew about decision of USSR to involve in the war with Japane.
It was absolutly evidently for the Japanes the sensless to continie the fight in july of 1945. Stalin considered possibility of take the Japenes capitulation, but this is certainly not suit the USA.
USA with Britain demand in rough notes the full Japane’s capitulation without any conditions and Trumen ordered to accelerate the preperation of A-bomb program.
Japane was ready capitulated not later then end of august 1945, whithout A-bombing and “invasion to the Japane”. Becouse USSR entered the war in Far East.
I think that A-bomb was realy needed for:
- Execute the Japanes.
- Stope the uncle Joe-Stalin in its motion to the Sout-Eastern Asia , were after the banishment of Japanes the positions of communists were strong (Birma , China, Vietnam, Korea and ets).
- Political reason - to show the other world “who is new master of house”.
(in american press is was named as “demonstrated a terrible power of A-bomb - new american political toy”)
Today all the worl listen the nonsense about “million saved japanese lives”.
This gentlemens prefer the imagine the Japanes as idiots which all were ready “to die for Imperor”.
USA simple ignored the Japanes attempts of capitulation, and prefered to made a “big public execution” for all the world.
How many lives could losed …
Zero
Becouse this landing invasion to the Japanes island would never be …
Japanes should be capitulated befor the possible invasion of USSR to the Japane.
What could be worst the A-bomb - just Communist Japane in 1945.
Cheers.
Everybody has his own opinion, the mine is that the cruelty depicted by the japaneses in the early stages of the war made that the americans show no mercy at the time of planing heavy bombardement campaings against civilian population, conventional and nuclear.
And I honestly believe that as terrible, cruel, etc,etc, that the A-bombs are it was an act of war and not a war crime. C est la guerre.
Hello,
Every war has escentially a goal that is not purely war related. The purpose of any war as whole is what happenes after it not during it. And the closer the end the more true it is.
Especially in July 1945 when all parties were thinking about the world order after the war. The minds of the world leaders were already kind of in the post war state. That is why the purpose of doing something so dramatic as using nuke for the first time was to do much more than just getting military victory here and now…
So in my oppinion the main (not the only one though) reason was to scary USSR and limit it’s advance in the east.
By the way, Stalin would do the same if he could.
Best regards
Igor Korenev
I have always said that dropping “the bomb” was the right thing to do and still do.
There is no question that the USSR weighed heavily in the decision to drop the A-bomb. Not just purely intimidation or deterrence stand point either. The US was also afraid a land invasion of Japanese Islands proper would give the Red Army/Naval Infantry a chance to catch up and land large numbers effectively dividing the home islands as was Germany…
As for the right or wrong of using the bomb from a moral stand point, I wish the bombs would have been used not on two largely untouched (by conventional strategic bombing) cities of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, but on military targets such as the Tokyo Naval Yard…
But one thing that those that find the bombing to be completely immoral should consider is that even after the bombs were dropped, and Emperor Hirohito was prepared to surrender, there were still hard-liner officers in the IJA that wanted to continue the War to the extent that they launched a coup de’tat against the emperor. The only thing that stopped it was an air-raid in which B-29s knocked out the power to Tokyo thus slowing down the coup plotters and preventing them from taking over Japan…