Israeli Super Sherman

No. The T-54/55 was a generation ahead of the Sherman. But the Israeli Sherman could be used successfully in a limited, static defense role because its 75mm and 105mm guns were still able to defeat their armor…

Yes i mean the foolish numbers of casualties.
I knew about most of Israeli tanks were lost in not Tank vs Tank battles. But do not forget that the ISreal aviation and artillery ( i do not tell about infantry armed with AT means) also hited the Arabs tanks.
BTW do you have any detailed statistic of loses ( reason of loses, figures and ets)?

The initial Israeli tank losses in the Sinai were both large and worrisome to them. According to the Leavenworth Paper (pg’s 39-40) by Dr. George Gawrych, by October 7th (the second day?) --the Israelis lost over 260 of 391 alloted tanks in desperate attempts to relieve the Sinai fortification garrisons. Many of them front line M-60s and M-48A4s (with 105mm guns). Most of the small Israeli garrisons were overrun and forced to surrender…

Well actually you right Bravo.
There are the situation in life when even the last convicted atheist would thansform into the hot believer.
I had few of such situatiojns in my previous life.
Besides i’m christened. Althoug both my perents were the members of Comparty, my gremma teched me the Christian prayer " Our Father".
Somethimes i read it befor the sleep.
I/m sure this would help.
I don’t like the Church , but still hope for the god’s existence.
I don’t trust the Bible, coz it told the pure fary tells.
However i do believe in Karma, that say the everybody have to pay its sins in next life.
This is perfect religion IMO.
But this is whole other thread…

I know about differences in US classification.
However i have to say that the Weight is alway very essential characteristic.
You could not move the 40 tons and 60 tons tanks with the equal motor with same velocity and maneuvreability.
Yo you right about M-1 that wasn’t so effective in crossed rural land.Where even the obsolet soviet T-54 was not as bad.I,ve read ome of reports about it.

Even obsolet German PzIV with 75 gun was still able to defeat the some parts of armor of T-54.( as even the rare armor of Abrams)
What out of it?
We could not actually compare the two different age tanks, right.

The initial Israeli tank losses in the Sinai were both large and worrisome to them. According to the Leavenworth Paper (pg’s 39-40) by Dr. George Gawrych, by October 7th (the second day?) --the Israelis lost over 260 of 391 alloted tanks in desperate attempts to relieve the Sinai fortification garrisons. Many of them front line M-60s and M-48A4s (with 105mm guns). Most of the small Israeli garrisons were overrun and forced to surrender…

Very well. Thank yo for that datas.
So what was the main reason of Israely tanks loses?I’ve read at least half of them were hited by the AT Sagger missiles.

Perhaps…

Re: the M-1, it’s VERY effective at crossing rural areas. It’s not so effective at driving down narrow streets or across small bridges not rated for a 60-ton vehicle. And such an MBT was thought to be overkill in most situations --before Iraq that is…:slight_smile:

Of course not. The T-55 was a post War tank that is still in service with many countries today, with upgrades being offered by both Western and Eastern European countries. But both tanks were similarly adaptable giving them a long service life…

For instance: many of Egypt’s T-55s were upgraded in the UK, and yes, they mount an upgraded L-7 105mm gun along with Western optics and electronics…

I’m not sure what they do about the engines (which I imagine are pretty reliable to begin with)…

Very well. Thank yo for that datas.
So what was the main reason of Israely tanks loses?I’ve read at least half of them were hited by the AT Sagger missiles.

You are most welcome.

Keep in mind that the Egyptians (largely without Soviet help as they alienated the USSR by trying to improve relations and direct aid was cut off a couple of years previously, which the Egyptians actually used as part of their complex, clever ruse to fool the Israelis) had issued some sort of anti-tank weapon to one out of every three of their infantry and engineers (RPGs as well as Saggers). I’m not sure, but I suspect they used their tanks (dug in) as bait to lure the Israeli tanks into AT kill-zones, much as the German Afrika Korps had so often done to the British early on…

It was not just RPG-7.
Since the 1963 has been taken in sevice the new kind of wire controlled AT missles

The first wire-controlled missles had the lacks but nevertheless it was much more effective wearpon then the old RPG.
The initial success of that wearpon was demonstrated during October war of 1973.

I know. I think something’s lost in the translation. I was indicating that the RPGs augmented the Saggers, but the Sags were the main weapons used essentially as anti-tank guns, employed in kill boxes, had been used in WWII…

about the sherman tank history

used as artilary in the idf

more in

תותח על שרקמן.JPG

LOOKING FOR PICTURES OF SHERMAN TANK ALL MODELS ANY YEAR ANY COUNTRY

FOR THOSE INTERESTED SOME INFO AND PIC IN MY BLOG

Very cool. Welcome to the forum Uri :slight_smile:

Merged thread.

thanks… glad to be here

I forgot to mention - we do have a thread on the M4 Sherman tank (WWII era)

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1962

thanks again

Nice pics Uri.

I am assuming the top pic to be in the Sinai 1967.

And the bottom pic possibly near Jerusalem or in the West Bank 1967.

Not sure if I am correct though.

hi
the first pic is from sinai the second from latrun area june 67
some more pic where you can see jordenia jeep with a gun
taken during the fighting of the same day. The idf got those
jeeps only after kippur war 73

sherman 6 days w.jpg

SHERMAN 6DAYS.jpg

sherman 66d.jpg

Nice pics Uri.

I am assuming the top pic to be in the Sinai 1967.

And the bottom pic possibly near Jerusalem or in the West Bank 1967.

Not sure if I am correct though.

-[/QUOTE]
hi
the first pic is from sinai the second from latrun area june 67
some more pic where you can see jordenia jeep with a gun
taken during the fighting of the same day. The idf got those
jeeps only after kippur war 73


[/QUOTE]

Thanks Uri,

So the pic second from top was taken in the Latrun area. Would that be near the Latrun Police fort near Jerusalem? Also looks like possibly a monastery in the background.

Looks like a captured Jordanian jeep with 106mm recoilless rifle (still has Jordanian camouflage) in third pic from bottom. The Sherman tank is equipped with searchlight.

Second pic from bottom looks like the West Bank 1967.

Bottom pic looks like the Negev or Sinai. The Sherman tank has a searchlight fitted with canvas cover.

These are very high quality images. Thanks for sharing.

Shalom, Uri,
Many Thanks for some very good images. They are greatly Appreciated. :slight_smile:
I went to your site, and thoroughly enjoyed it.
May Many Blessings Be Yours and Your Family’s.

Warm Regards, and Blessed Be Uri, Uyraell.

The difference between so called Heavy and Medium tanks is more down to the countries design philosophy

France, Germany, Russia, America preferred lighter, faster thinner armoured tanks
so going for the
Gun, Manouverability, Armour triangle

Britain went for

Gun, Armour, Manouverability

Deciding that battlefield survivability/manouverability matter more than speed (tanks rarely fought while driving at max speed as although the gun may be fully stabilized the crew would not be)

Hence the more common term of Main Battle Tank in the West at least

On the Golan heights the ability of the Israeli tanks to depress their gun barrels further than the Syrians helped them ‘nothing to do with velocity, penetration, etc as if your gun cant depress sufficiently to target the opposition when climbing or defending hills you are not going to hit’

The Israeli tanks could fire from hull down positions when they gained the heights while the majority of Syrian tanks had to expose more of themselves so negating the benifits of having a smaller profile (T54/55/62 designed to fight in open country/plains type areas)

The T-62 has all the limitations of the T-55: cramped crew compartment, thin armor, crude gun control equipment (on most models), limited depression of main gun, and vulnerable fuel and ammunition storage areas. The automatic spent-cartridge ejection system can cause dangerous accumulations of carbon monoxide and possibly actual physical injury to the crew from cartridge cases projected against the edge of a poorly aligned ejection port and rebounding into the crew compartment. Opening the ejection port under NBC conditions would also expose the crew to contamination.

Each time the gun is fired, the tube must go into detente for cartridge ejection, and the power traverse of the turret is inoperable during ejection and reloading operations. Since manual elevation and traverse are rather slow and not effective for tracking a moving target, rapid fire and second-hit capabilities are limited. The turret also cannot be traversed with the driver’s hatch open. Although the tank commander may override the gunner and traverse the turret, he cannot fire the main gun from his position. He is unable to override the gunner in elevation of the main gun, causing target acquisition problems.

The T-55 is most effective against light to medium armor vehicles. The basic ammunition load for the main gun is 43 rounds. External fuel cells make the tank very vulnerable, as does its thin armor protection. The T-55 has a limited ability to depress the main gun, hindering the tank’s fires in defilade from high ground. In addition the gunner’s primary sight is slaved to the main gun, which does not allow the gunner to acquire targets in a hull-down posture.

Although the half-egg shaped turret of the T-55 has good ballistic qualities, it provides cramped working conditions for the crew, resulting in a slow rate of fire; and the protection afforded by its low silhouette (1 meter lower than the M60) is counterbalanced by its poor armor protection which is thin by western standards. By the same standards, its gun control equipment is also crude. It shares the disadvantage of most Soviet tanks in having limited ability to depress the main gun, thus not being capable of firing effectively from defilade and being forced to expose itself to engage targets. Ammunition and fuel are stored in vulnerable positions.

To my knowledge the T64 was never sold to any country and was only used by the Russians, the T72 was the export model for that era .

Thank you
I took some walk around of the super Sherman and rocket on Sherman chassis
I will post it soon

http://www.idf-armor.blogspot.com/