Um, I think it’s a good deal more complex than that. Firstly, Israel itself helped found the very political movement that was elected largely in response to Fatah’s corruption (Hamas) as a means to draw strength from the essentially more secular “Pan Arab Nationalist” PLO/Fatah. And of the Palestinians launching rockets. Obviously they’re indiscriminate killers. But when you get into the Israelis’ means of using collective punishment against ALL Palestinians and the fact that the death toll is far greater on the Palestinian side (and that includes civilians), then things are not so simple. What would prevent ANY Palestinian youth from joining a resistance movement at this point?
Neither you nor I can speak for France.
Using hypothetical situations as an analogy doesn’t fit in this instance.
It’s indeed a messy situation down there in which neither side can claim to be either only the victim or the perpetrator. It’s probably not smart to react militarily to the Hamas attacks and usually also hit civilians but it’s possibly the only viable option for Israel. I doubt the Islamic fundamentalist would ever stop bombing no matter how the Israelis behave short of abandoning their state and leaving (and given the behaviour of islamists worldwide I would even doubt that).
I don’t recall saying that, but I’ve said a lot so who knows? Point me to what I said and I’ll address it.
My point was about whether it’s time for Israel to be cut adrift by other powers, because it’s never shown any inclination to come to a just, or any, settlement with the Palestinians it displaced and has continued to inflame matters.
Whether Israel reacts militarily to rockets by Hamas isn’t relevant to that aspect. I don’t think there’s much to be gained by looking at that in isolation because there’s a long history of violent wrongs on both sides, going back to the Zionist terrorism which got them the state they wanted in the first place.
Israel doesn’t have clean hands on terrorism, but it chooses to forget that aspect of its history and focus only on terrorism nowadays by its opponents. I’m inclined to see the original Zionist terrorism as establishing a pattern which continues today. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.
The only relevance I see in Israel’s responses to Hamas attacks to the question I posed in the thread title is that, like the probably intentional Israeli shelling of the UN post in the 2006 Lebanon war, they demonstrate something about the persistent attitude of the Israelis, which is essentially: We took what we wanted by force and we’ll hold it by force, and bugger the Palestinians and bugger the rest of the world.
That’s not an attitude which I see as entitling Israel to continuing international support. It’s an attitude which I think disentitles them to further international support.
Not consciously, i.e. Hamas rocket attacks. It’s just one of many current and past aspects that is part of the mess surrounding Israel.
The only unconscious influence of the Hamas attacks in inspiring this thread would be the departure of the good Dr Condie Rice to the Middle East on an even more pointless attempt by another, not exactly disinterested, power ‘to broker peace in the Middle East’. I wish I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard that phrase in the past forty years.
I say it’s even more pointless because now she’s got to try to get peace between three parties, Israel, Hamas in Gaza and the Palestinian Authority / Fatah on the West Bank, when they’re all opposed to each other and there’s no united voice for the Palestinians.
There isn’t going to be any peace as long as the Israelis continue their established conduct, so I think it’s time for other powers to pull the plug on them and let them slug it out on their own. If they win, well and good. If they don’t, that’s their problem. But if they look like losing, I’ll bet they’re a bloody sight more willing as part of any peace negotiations to resolve some of the long standing issues that have been impediments to peace.
Assumning Iran doesn’t just nuke them in a few years, before or after Israel nukes Iran.