I’m italian and i’m not distressed. It’s a question of pride for me.
Anyway in general italian tanks are poorly made, in most cases use outdated design concept, they are normally generated from obtuse request, produced in too much small number and last but not least used in the worst way. Italian Army isn’t prepared for modern warfare, where mechanical vehicles play a pivotal role, they lack the culture needed for them. In general all Armies that fight in WWII don’t understand the tank warfare in deep at the start of war. Also the Wermacht, with his main offensive terrestrial tactic Blitzkried based upon breaktrough of tanks, search a way to transport cavelry to battle field until before the start of WWII tu use the cavelry for rapid assault and fantery transportation.
Burp is right, this is not a question of being Italian or not, I have French is the same thing to criticize my country. The lack of preparation for war was obvious from our side. We had some good tanks and good aircraft, but production did not follow. the commandment was made by senior officers who had the first World War and were unable to conceive of a war of movement as the Germans had prepared. Our soldiers are as brave as the Italians, although Souvant controlled by officers and officers of values. But what to do against an enemy who had based his tactics on a rapid movement, supported by tanks may be less able to startup the French tanks, but commanded by generals of values.
They are those who put their country in this situation should be ashamed.
Regarding transport, we must know that all the armies present at the start of the conflict, seul the British army was 100% mechanical, even though the armed German was very well equipped, possessed hyppomobiles battalions.
Friendly Fred
Well the germans were actually the most horse dependant army of the WW2 specially in the east. Thanks for the reply guys.
Something has been bugging me for a while now. I had a book ‘Wavells Offensive’ which I can not find now. One of the pics in it of I believe Italian Artillery in Tobruk or Bardia showed muzzle loaders in sangers. The caption said that the assumption was the guns were just decoys but rammers and buckets were on the walls and the sangers were constructed to enable the guns to be serviced.
Does anyone have any information on these weapons, who would have used them (Italian or local troops), were they dragged out as a desperate measure/decoys/on a units equipment table. Type of ammunition they may have had.
They seemed strange on a battlefield, even one in a theater that used lots of obsolete and obsolescent equipment.
You mean this one ?
I dont know what is the name of it, but is a breech loader I had seen this gun in newsreels finnish service in Karelia 1940, Aniway yes is obsolete no recoil absorbing mechanism at all.
Thanks Panzerknacker
That’s the pic, looked for along time many years ago about further info and never found anything out about these weapons.
Just one of those images that bugs you because it seems so out of place.
Well probably is a decoy as you say, it was a XIX century weapon so honestly I dont think was actually fired by the italians. Is true that some of their weapons, specially the Breda MG looked like 1890 guns in spite of being newly built.:mrgreen:
Here you see some of the field artillery manufactured in that period, this is a 1939 newsreel showing inside Ansaldo works in Genoa.
To answer your interrogation, here is a picture that sent me Kuno Gross, who shows a decoy used by the Italians at Tobruk. All the belligerents have used decoys.
Friendly fred
![z-Tobruk-1000[1]..JPG](https://discuss.ww2incolor.com/uploads/default/original/2X/9/9b9b95a249ce2aab67daf1f4b1cff04be4bda552.jpeg)
After doing a little search on google images I found the pic at Bardia again along with one with Rommel inspecting some of these guns.
They were identified as a Cannone da 149/35 and in use with the Italian forces (around 900 pieces)
A bit further searching and I found a 3d rendering site that had a pic of a very similar looking weapon identified as a Cannon Obice 149/12 Modello 14 also used during WW2
fredl109
That pic looks like a Fiat 3000 (Italian copy/version of a Renault FT17) which was used by the Italian forces in WW2
That piece was actually used by the Italians ?, no wonder they were sweeped by Wavell.
Nice picture Fred, an ulgy duck and decoy as must say.
Sorry for the translation (Google translation) its a lure and not decoy. My english is poor sorry.
Friendly Fred
Hello I’m looking for information and pictures of italian anti-tank mines, I have found some brief info on wikipedia such as the Pignone bakelite mines. However I can’t find any photos of any mines, or any information on wich were most commonly used.
I dont know if this will help but its a 1943 US war department manual it seems to be fairly good for info covering various nations mines. you may get a better copy elsewhere (this is a downloadable scan of the origional book)
Fm-5-31-Land-Mines-and-Booby-Traps-1943
This one you dont need to register for to download it seems
Thanks, I’ve found that too. would like some better photos though
For illustrate this , two photo , the first is a Bakelite mine and in the seconde photo you have two Bersaglieri with another type of mine.
![telingsahara40[1]&#.jpg](https://discuss.ww2incolor.com/uploads/default/original/2X/9/92d70f1a39be70eeded72ccaf3e008c69870b7f2.jpeg)
that first pic is nice, but hard to make out any details. However it doesnt look like the Pignone bakelite mines depicted on wikipedia so I have no clue what that is. The second is a german leichte panzermine though.
@Leccy, thanks found those too
thanks, very helpfull, also very strange no mention of Pignone P-1/P-2 in that chart