M1 Garand

I have seen in the movie battleground and band of brothers the M1 was load with a clip and the blot had to be push forward before firing is this how there were fired.?

Of course you mean “M1 Garand”

There is some information here:

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4277

The Clip, (in this case it is a clip, not a magazine,) is inserted into the top of the receiver, with the bolt locked open.(The bolt will automatically remain open after the last shot is fired, ejecting the now empty clip.) Once seated into the receiver, the operating handle is pulled slightly back to release the lock mechanism,then released, allowing the bolt to move forward,stripping a round from the clip and pushing it into the chamber. The weapon is now ready to fire.

The operating rod handle might need a push if the rifle is dirty or if some of the parts are worn. The way it is supposed to work is you insert the clip until it locks into place. As you remove downward pressure from the clip the bolt should release and move forward, chambering the first round. I have three Garands. Two work correctly, the third one needs a slap to the op rod as soon as it gets slightly dirty. The clips can also cause this problem.

yes but i have seen some times where the blot was push forward was this required

In the movie Battleground which was about the battle of the bulge squad leaders were seen telling to check the blots was this true or made up ?

It is only required when the rifle is worn or dirty. I would expect it to get dirty during a battle, so yes, it was most likely required.

Check the bolts for what? I haven’t seen the film. Maybe to make sure the rifle wasn’t frozen?

Here are two Youtube videos showing a properly functioning and lubricated Garand being loaded:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQkZbYPc94M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYa71_NaV7U

Grot, your descriptions are the way I remember the rifle and I carried one for two years.

The slight pull back on the operating rod was not for the M-1, it was for the M-14 and, since the 14 was/is fed from a bottom loaded magazine, was only done as a part of the formal inspection routine . . . inspector hands back the rifle, you snatch it out of his hands, come to port arms, give the operating rod a pull back and release. The bolt slams home and you execute order arms.

With the M-1, after snatching back the rifle, from the port arms position you reach up and push down the guide with your right thumb and that releases the bolt and you execute order arms. This little move of sticking your thumb in to release the guide is where the infamous “M-1 thumb” occurs if you are a little slow or clumsy. Wearing gloves can also pose a problem and takes a little practice, I’ve seen guys marching off from formal inspections with gloves hanging out of the receiver, flapping in the breeze; sure to garner one a goodly share of demerits, not to mention ruining a perfectly good right hand glove.

Rich

during the battle of the bulge did the m1 grand the blot freeze up because of the winter temp. and this might be why they had to check them.

Think that one through for a minute . . . here you are in a combat situation. The bad guys are out there and could appear at any moment. If you don’t already have a round loaded and locked in the chamber, what kind of dummy are you? No those guys’ weapons were loaded and because they were loaded there is/was no reason to “check” a bolt. I can assure you that the gas recoil from firing your first round will be more than sufficient to open the action on the weapon and after that it is all automatic . . . bolt goes back, the guide is depressed because you still have a clip with round in the weapon, so the bolt does not lock back, it just slides forward like it should, picks up a round and you’re back in battery.
Can a weapon freeze? Oh sure, if you let it get wet and expose it to cold temperatures, but if it’s already loaded, it is not a problem. We were taught to care for our weapons so such uncertainties did rear their heads. Don’t want to count the times I woke up in my cozy poncho liner, or when colder in a sleeping bag, with my arms wrapped around . . . my rifle.
If you’re seeing this stuff in a movie, then
(1) from a technical standpoint, if the actors are running blanks through an M-1, without a properly installed blank adaptor on the muzzle or a special adaptor barrel, they will indeed find themselves working the bolt as a blank round does not have the capabilty to provide the gas necessary for the recoil action. Just as a bullet traps enough gas in the collector to operate the recoil, so does a blank adaptor. If the adaptor is not right, then you end up operating the bolt by hand, reaching up and pulling it back to eject the spent round and releasing to pick up a new one from the clip.
(2) Entertainment type movies are a really bad place to learn the operation of a weapon. Writers have a tendency to seize on the single mention of a single incident and present that as a common ocurrence.

Rich

During the Battle of the Bulge there were many instances of the bolts (not blots) freezing if they had too much grease on them or if the rifle was taken inside and the ice on it melted and then refroze when taken back outside. Once word of this got around the Sgts would have their men check and fix any that were frozen shut. The firing of the weapon did not always work to free the bolt from this condition. There are several 1st hand references of soldiers in combat in the Bulge peeing on the bolt to free it.

We didn’t have long to wait when the order came to move out at the German positions. But first we had to make sure out rifles were in working order and not frozen. The bolt on my rifle was hard to pull back but I managed to get it working. The guy next to me couldn’t get his to move. so I told him to put the rifle butt on the ground and I took my rifle butt and banged down on the bolt to free it.

We were told to get ready to attack but make sure our rifles were in working order. With the cold and the dampness, the bolt on the rifle could be frozen. I had mine under the blanket next to me so mine was in good working order.

I so remember coming in from one of the early patrols I took out and having a real problem. When we came in we had to cross through a safe lane and clear our weapons. This night was bitterly cold and it had snowed. When we started to clear our weapons we found all the bolts were frozen closed. Had we run into any Germans that night we could each have fired only one round. Even the pins on our hand grenades were frozen in and could not be readily pulled.

interesting, i’ve read a lot about winter warfare where the GI will continually mention moving the bolt back and forth

may i ask where u got these quotes?

I have a feeling that if I had been issued an M-1, I’d of had a lot of the thumb. Ouch.

If you ever get it you quickly learn you never want it again. It usually occured when closing the bolt without a clip during cleaning and inspections, the clip kept your thumb out of harms way for the most part.

I Googled M1 Garand, frozen bolt, Battle of the Bulge and found quite a few references, I didn’t think I needed to use them all.

I had a mint condition 1943 garand fail on me bigtime a failure you would never want to happen in the field the end of the new 65 year old Garands op rod poped off! even the armorer was suprised and amazed as this type of failure is extremly rare! Oh wellit’s being gone over bigtime for free too =) hope to have it shipped here this year! I’m In Europe but Hail from the woods of Vermont.

The M1 rifle was designed so that when the clip was pushed (with the thumb) all the way down into the magazine, the breachbolt would release and the bolt would spring forward, chambering the top cartridge in the clip. If the bolt did not release properly, you can slap the rear of the handle on the operating rod, which usually solves the problem. I am not sure this can be called a malfunction, as I once saw a film shot at the Springfield Armory that featured John Garand himself showing off the functioning of a brand new M1 rifle, and he had to slap the operating rod handle to get the bolt to spring forward, and he didn’t even bat an eye about it.

Actually, unless you want ‘Garand thumb’, I’d prefer one have to slap the op rod handle to get it to release.

Deaf

The bolt does not release and go forward upon mere insertion of the clip.

It is still caught and pulling it back slightly or sometimes slapping the stock releases it.

I have a Garand I’ve owned for 50 years.
You have to be pretty clumsy or not paying attention to actually get a M1 thumb.

Technically they only happen when recovery during “inspection arms.”

Don’t take movies too seriously.

He’s right. But uh… I once got M1 thumb!

You can slap the bolt handle and it will run forward, or just pull back a bit on it. I still wish they had just made a 10 round detachable box mag. It would have been simpler to make and it’s not like the idea wasn’t known at that time! But for the life if me using the method the Carcano used is not a good method! After all, we did have the BAR to give us an example.

Oh, well, we won anyway and it was still the best out there in general use.

Deaf