Panzer projects & prototypes.

Maybe my uncles could run faster than those machines:D

For sure, suppose you are in a trench in Tunisia in 1943, or France in 1944, you had no bazooka or any other antitank weapons, only your trusty Garand and some grenades, then suddendly 3 o 4 of these Lowes appeared with guns and machineguns blazing…you run like hell…in the opposite direction.

Me too!:mrgreen:

Hi Churchill,
My dad was on a destroyer escort. They helped destroyers in the hunt for submarines. In the PTO, they were used for sub duty and for anti-aircraft duty to protect the larger ships (battleships, aircraft carriers). They also went in closer range to help with naval gun barrages and to provide smoke screens and such.
As for my uncle, he was either in the 28th or 29th Infantry Division. (big difference, I know) I’ll have to ask my dad again since I have forgotten exactly which one.
My other uncle was in the PTO but never saw action prior to coming home.

Hi, I saw this as an obvious photoshop. I used tineye.com to find this image:

My first post here, nice forums!

Hi, I saw this as an obvious photoshop. I used tineye.com to find this image:

Definately, some people liked so much this type of projeckt tanks that also tried to make their own designs :rolleyes:

To be fair, the amount of resources it took to both build something like the Lowe in the first place and then move it anywhere afterwards meant that if 3 or 4 of these appear in front of your trench you’re probably the point of main effort for an entire Division at least, probably Army. Even in the unlikely event of you having something suitable to deal with them at hand, the quantity of supporting arms coming your way along side them will pretty much guarantee you’re toast no matter what.

Woah, my scenario was an hipotetical case, completely subjetive, despite that I am pretty sure than more than once the US soldier faced enemy armor with no or only light AT weapons. The AT guns used in Tunisia were 37 and 57 mm, both completely ineffective against a sloped 120 mm rolled homogenous armor plate.

The bazooka usually did nor penetrated the Tiger 1 frontal plate and that armor was 20mm slimer than the Lion and also flat.

In the Ardennes Bulge for example the infamous SS panzerbrigade 150th was mostly destroyed with light weapons in hands of US soldiers, mostly the bazooka but also the cheap M9 hollow charge rifle launched grenade, again both weapons completely ineffective if used against a monster like the Lion tank.

Uh…quite silent post, I think that is one of tyhe Maus turrets still unused in Krupp at Essen.

Porsche Typ 180:

After being defeated by the proposal of Henschel in the race to equip to the Heer with the new Tiger 1 tank, doctor Porsche put hands to the armored work for a new one that had to be armed with the antitank version of Flak 41. The new model was denominated Typ 180 by Porsche and VK.45.02 (P) by the Army technical departamente (HWA) . The hull was made using plates 80 mm thick in the front and sides, the frontal superior plate was sloped 45 degrees and 35 inferiorº the lower one.

In that date (early1942) the ball emlpacement for the MG was not perfected for an inclined glacis, so this element as well the opening for drivers direct vision were cut into into the armor and closed by hinged covers.

A heavy belt of armor protected the turret ring. Main armament was the powerful Kwk 43 of 88mm L/71 with coaxial a MG-34 plus one MG 34 in hull.
Aditional defense against attacks of infantry with the 90mm Nahverteidigungswaffe grenade launcher and two pistol ports in each side of the turret.

The propulsion was (once again) an electrical-mechanical set, the Typ 180A used two 10 cylinders in V porsche Typ 101/3 of 15 liters engines with 300 HP, these were connected to generators to fed motors Siemens traction engines…

It seems to have T-34ish looks…

Very nice!

I agree, Looks as though the Germans took many ideas from the T-34.

Russian T-34 was in the mind of professor Porsche when he started this design, there is no doubt about that, in 1942 the T-34 considered by the german generals as the best in the wold.

The final part of the history of that projekt:

Its bulky power pack in the Typ 180 need a large amount of room in hull, so in that way the turret had to be moved forwar causing a long barrel overhang when the 88mm was in 12 o clock position.

Typ 180, squematic. Note the long 88x822mm cases.

The suspension was internal torsion bars with 3 sets of 2 wheels rubbed rimmed bogies. The relatively narrow 640mm track give a high pressure of 1,23 kg/square centimeter.

Top speed was 35 km/h.

Unfortunately for Dr. Porsche his fascination with advanced engine design let to the ultimate failure of the VK 4502 (P). The 10-cylinder engines failed during trials, and there was no confidence that the design would bear fruit (given previous Porsche failures using the same drivetrain layout). All of the contracts relating to the VK 4502 (P) were rescinded and reduced from 150 to only the 3 prototypes.

Despite that there is no photo evidence that those were actually manufactured.

Work did, however continue into the middle of 1944. By that time the vehicle had hydraulic drive, new suspension, a 900 metric horsepower air-cooled disel, and heavier armament with delivery schedule “far in the future.” Ultimately the turrets were converted for use on the Henschel Tiger II.

Top squematic view, the near turret is the location for electric generators.

I like their adoption of the Christie style suspension system, and from the side,(despite several technical differences) it looks a bit like the JSII . The forward placement of the turret, fairly low silhouette, very interesting. It would be an interesting match between these two.

images.jpeg

In favour of the JS-2 I must say the russian V-12 diesel was by far more reliable than Porsche s electric drive.

VK 1301:

Single prototype for a fast recce tank, made by MAN and tested in Austria in mid 1942. It was used later as a base for developing the “luchs” recce panzer.
It was armed with a 20mm Kwk 38 and a MG 34, engine : 6 cilinders maybach 185 hp, weight: 12500 kg.
Armor varied between 30 to 11 mm.

With fake turret

Turret, no armament

Armament installed.

Very nice suspension, and drive line, wide tracks are good in the bushes, it should have greater firepower though, 1 auto 20 is okay, but 2 would be better.:evil:

Yup, the torsion bars and the engine allowed 61km/h, its problem was the armor, too light for the intended teather of operations.

Saurer Aufklärer:

Interesting austrian response for a fast recoinassance tank. It used the Saurer patented double traction with combined wheel and tracks. It could atain 75 km/h on road ( with the wheels down)
Engine was a 6 cilinders diesel with 140 hp, Maximum armor remain in 30mm, weight was limited to 8,5 tons.

The turret and armament was the same used in the Krupp VK 901/ panzer 1 ausf C. It had a semiautomatic antiarmor gun EW 141 and a coaxial MG 34 with armored barrel.

Despite the good characteristics it did not find favour inside the HWA, a sigle prototype was manufactured in mid 1942.