Peace Movement

[Chevan]

@Gen_Sandworm

Another person (from my neck of the woods) that helped make a difference and damn near ruined his career doing so.

Muhammad Ali, 1966:
“I ain’t got no quarrel with the Viet Cong. No Vietnamese ever called me nigger… No, I am not going 10,000 miles to help murder, kill and burn other people to simply help continue the domination of white slavemasters over dark people the world over.”

So what could say the “victim of professtional boxing” more.Did he ever see the piecefull Viet Cong 'in action" who did not called him nigger?
The better way for him IMO if he goes to the Vietnam - may be he could save his mind and health if survived;)

Cheers.

[Rising_Sun]

@Gen_Sandworm

Another person (from my neck of the woods) that helped make a difference and damn near ruined his career doing so.

Muhammad Ali, 1966:
“I ain’t got no quarrel with the Viet Cong. No Vietnamese ever called me nigger… No, I am not going 10,000 miles to help murder, kill and burn other people to simply help continue the domination of white slavemasters over dark people the world over.”

The posts in this thread keep reminding me how bloody stupid I was when I bought the line that we should be in Vietnam and had contempt for the original minority who opposed our involvement. The original minority in 1964 became the majority by 1972, by which time like most people I’d switched to being against our involvement.

I particularly remember thinking Ali was just a coward who was trying to avoid serving, without any idea of the courage it took to stand up against the system.

It’s a pity a lot more people didn’t have his insight and courage from the start.

A lot of people, on both sides from various nations, had to die unnecessarily before we woke up to the fact that we were supporting a bunch of crooks to no good purpose.

[Nickdfresh]

@1000ydstare

Bloody peaceniks…

Check your sig man!

“It’s something about the duality on man.”

[Rising_Sun]

@Nickdfresh

Of course I am ‘biased,’ as are you. I am an American nationalist.

This is to be expected of an imperialist capitalist lackey dog thingo thing thingy thing.

Now, for the purposes of comparison, during the Vietnam war when the peace loving peoples of the USSR were supplying North Vietnam with weapons and personnel to operate them against the imperialist Yankee agressors, exactly how many demonstrations against the war occurred in the USSR by people opposing the USSR’s involvement and how many of the peace loving Soviet people attended them?

Or was the Soviet peace movement expressed purely by sending SAM crews to Vietnam?

[32Bravo]

@Rising_Sun

Or was the Soviet peace movement expressed purely by sending SAM crews to Vietnam?

A prime example of actions speaking louder than words.

Judge him not by what he says, but by what he does.

[Nickdfresh]

@Rising_Sun

This is to be expected of an imperialist capitalist lackey dog thingo thing thingy thing.

Now, for the purposes of comparison, during the Vietnam war when the peace loving peoples of the USSR were supplying North Vietnam with weapons and personnel to operate them against the imperialist Yankee agressors, exactly how many demonstrations against the war occurred in the USSR by people opposing the USSR’s involvement and how many of the peace loving Soviet people attended them?

Or was the Soviet peace movement expressed purely by sending SAM crews to Vietnam?

The Soviet/Chinese/Warsaw Pact involvement in Vietnam could be a completely separate topic. I’m not aware if it was ever believed by US pilots, or admitted by Soviet pilots or declassified archive documents, that Soviet pilots flew combat air patrol missions over Vietnam. I’ve never heard anything to that extent. I think it is mentioned here that in the course of The Son Tay Raid, US Special Forces didn’t find any POWs, but they did claim to have found caucasians wearing uniforms consistent with those of the Red Army, or of various Eastern Bloc states. They of course didn’t think twice about killing them…

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to go overthrow the gov’t of Venezuela.

[Rising_Sun]

@Nickdfresh

The Soviet/Chinese/Warsaw Pact involvement in Vietnam could be a completely separate topic. I’m not aware if it was ever believed by US pilots, or admitted by Soviet pilots or declassified archive documents, that Soviet pilots flew combat air patrol missions over Vietnam. I’ve never heard anything to that extent. I think it is mentioned here that in the course of The Son Tay Raid, US Special Forces didn’t find any POWs, but they did claim to have found caucasians wearing uniforms consistent with those of the Red Army, or of various Eastern Bloc states. They of course didn’t think twice about killing them…

Interesting.

My understanding is that the peace loving peoples of the USSR and the even gentler people attached to Mao who all happened, most fortuitously, to be tourists in Hanoi at even more fortuitous moments were never put in combat or operational roles in direct contact with North Vietnam’s opponents, but kept in roles such as gun / SAM crews and trainers on all sorts of things.

It must have been a pisser to be in a hotel where the Soviets and Chinese were both pretending not to be in NVN, and not supporting NVN, while being opposed to each other when neither of them were there. A Yank, trying to avoid war with everyone present, would have seemed almost conciliatory.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to go overthrow the gov’t of Venezuela.

Why?

They’re just commie drug runners.

Brazil is full of sheilas with stunning tits.

Go for the Brazilian.

Or should I have used the plural?

It’s hard to know what to do on a bad hair day.

[Rising_Sun]

@Rising_Sun

This is to be expected of an imperialist capitalist lackey dog thingo thing thingy thing.

I must apologise to you for not giving you your full honorific.

It’s been a long time since these terms were used.

I’m rusty.

I should, of course, have referred to you as an imperialist capitalist lackey running dog thingo thing thingy thing.

I will try to do better in future.

[Nickdfresh]

@Rising_Sun

Interesting.

My understanding is that the peace loving peoples of the USSR and the even gentler people attached to Mao who all happened, most fortuitously, to be tourists in Hanoi at even more fortuitous moments were never put in combat or operational roles in direct contact with North Vietnam’s opponents, but kept in roles such as gun / SAM crews and trainers on all sorts of things.

It must have been a pisser to be in a hotel where the Soviets and Chinese were both pretending not to be in NVN, and not supporting NVN, while being opposed to each other when neither of them were there. A Yank, trying to avoid war with everyone present, would have seemed almost conciliatory.

LOL As I posted in another thread, Vietnam seemed to be almost as much of a Cold War testing ground than a glorious crusade against communism or a war of the peoples’ liberation.

I’d like to know the Soviet casualties in Vietnam. I wouldn’t be surprised if it ranged into the dozens, if not hundreds…

Then of course, on the flip side and a darker note, there’s always the rumors that persist to this day; that there were certain captured American aviators that were not taken to the Hanoi Hilton - but to Moscow’s scenic Lubyanka Square for interrogation, and never heard from again… :mad:

Why?

They’re just commie drug runners.

Brazil is full of sheilas with stunning tits.

Go for the Brazilian.

Or should I have used the plural?

It’s hard to know what to do on a bad hair day.

Indeed, and I have the photos on my hard drive to prove it!

I’d post the Brazilian ‘nipple slip’ here, but it’s not the correct forum.

But I may start closer to home tonight, and try to “recruit” the three Russian barmaid/waitresses foreign exchange (college) girls working at a local pool hall and pub. :twisted: Gawd they’re beautiful!

[Chevan]

@Nickdfresh

Of course I am ‘biased,’ as are you. I am an American nationalist. Most of us here has some sort of patriotic inclinations. I actually do not consider myself a nationalist, but a patriot. I’ll leave the irrational nationalism to US Neo/authoritarian-conservatives, who are growingly discredited thankfully…

I think Nick you rather the American Idealist;) Lake and many other peoples in USA.
But i like it in you:D

Cheers.

[pdf27]

Note: Posts regarding the USS Liberty have been split out of this thread and moved to their own thread in Other Wars/Cold War. Try to keep this thread on topic please gentlemen…

[Gen_Sandworm]

@pdf27

Note: Posts regarding the USS Liberty have been split out of this thread and moved to their own thread in Other Wars/Cold War. Try to keep this thread on topic please gentlemen…

Also going to agree with pdf here … let try to get back on track.

[pdf27]

The Zionism stuff has also been moved to Other Wars/Cold War.

[namvet]

North Vietnam counted heavily on winning that war with help of the Fonda’s, Kerry’s, hippies and anti war media. it worked. they won.

[Dan1950]

@Gen_Sandworm

Sometimes it can be hard to look at Vietnam without looking at what people had to say about the war. This approaches off topic but I feel still has alot to do with the war in the bigger picture.

There were movements all across the world in protest of the war in Vietnam. Just to start with one of the more popular figures from the US…Abbie Hoffman. He was portrayed briefly in the movie Forrest Gump.

Where to start…
They were dupes if you want to be kind. Communists and communist sympathizers for the ones that were not dupes.
Their photos appeared on NVA propaganda leaflets which used shots from American newspapers or photos taken by communists/communist sympathizers in the United States. These leaflets, aimed at American troops, also featured anti-war comments and speeches, some by members of Congress.
They gave hope, aid and comfort if you will, to the enemy.

They would contact families of service members with false KIA reports.

They furnished money and other material aid to the enemy. “Doc” searched a dead NVA medic one “morning after” and wondered if the drugs he carried had been sent to the Communists by war protestors.

They posed for photos in North Viet Nam wearing NVA unforms.

Their comments were used to build morale in the Communist forces in VN.

We will never know how many anti-Communists paid the ultimate price after some NVA decided not to “Chu Hoi” and killed someone instead.

Some were actively Communist and anti-American. Some were just stupid.
What Lenin referred to as “useful idiots”.

They helped to kill men in my unit in these ways.

There is great difference in standing up against some wrong being done.
Siding with a monstrous ideology that murdered 100 million of its own civilians during the 20th century proves a certain lack of common sense, significant ignorance or moral turpitude. When the people they were attacking, spitting on etc are trying to PROTECT people from the monster the attackers really need a reality check.