I was wondering, did the ROA soldiers have a choice? I mean either be in a POW Camp, and risk being executed by the Russian if they were liberated, or whatever else they faced from the Germans.
They didn’t have any choices , if the Russian re-got theme ,they who’d have been executer , and 2 yes they wanted there small country’s liberated under the communists
Hard to tell, I think that the issue lays in the real motifs behind an R.O.A enlisted man, if they believe really the Stalin was a enemy of the russian people I admire his devotion but if was jut to eat a little better… no very brave choice.
General Blasov s reviewing the R.O.A troops, note the T-34s used and the large proportion of panzerfaust.
Well I know stalin was not a good guy , but I don’t think every thing about communist is bad at all
Well, the topic is more about the history and combat value of this unit, the politics is a hairy businees, specially knowing who was in the other side, and that one was Hitler.
Vlasov, the commander of that army, probably believed that he will outsmart Germans, after defeating Bolshevism. I did not know that he was a leading player in the deffence of Moskow (November 1941).
Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)
Having read Vlasov’s biographical references as detailed in a 1960’s book about the ROA, I’m confident Vlasov himself intended a Ukraine independent of both the USSR and Germany.
I’m with Kovalski regarding the “who started it” aspect between the Poles and Ukrainians.
“Who started it” is completely irrelevant and contributes only emotional upheaval where historical analysis of the known data is the only way some sense, some historic truths may be successfully concluded about the events of that era.
Emotionalism serves no useful purpose whatsoever in this context, and serves only to inflame nationalist thoughts, which in themselves only cloud an already heavily clouded era.
What specifically interests me, is the general thinking among the ordinary populations, both of Poland and the western Ukraine. In much the same way as I am interested in the thinking of the general populace of Germany in that same era.
It is hard for me to view Vlasov as a traitor per se. I do understand how a Russian would see Vlasov as a traitor, in much the same way as I do understand a dedicated Nazi would view Vlasov as a useful figurehead. Which is, co-incidentally, much as Winston Churchill viewed Charles De Gaulle, even though Winston at one point contemplated having De Gaulle assassinated.
My own view is that Vlasov was at heart an idealist, who both perceived and seized the one opportunity history was going to grant him, to achieve something for his nation which would not recur. Namely, an independent nation, respected by its’ neighbours, and eventually contributing to humanity as a whole.
In that, Vlasov was near-enough a century ahead of his own time.
Was all that worth dieing for? I’m certain he felt so. And in the end, that is the only thing the man has to answer himself for.
Respectful Regards, Uyraell.
I think that Vlassov’s men were a lot better than the Kaminski brigade. Their conduct in Warsaw shocked even the SS commanders sent to crush the uprising, and they were not known for being squeamish.
I think that a lot of Russian people suffered under Stalin and wanted rid of him; this does not necessarily make them traitors. I think that if you were a person of deep religious conviction for instance, you would find the Soviet regime very objectionable. Fighting against it could actually be a matter of faith for some?
I think that the ROA were a pretty useful outfit for the Germans; otherwise they would have never been given an ME262 jet fighter. Also, they could never surrender so they will fight very hard.
I think that if ROA are traitors then the small number of Germans who fought for the Allies would be traitors too, but we do not see them that way. Is it not more important to be true to your own conscience than to a flag you do not believe in?
I think that for those men from nations occupied by the USSR the choice to take their chance with the Germans was understandable. Even though the Nazis committed war crimes, they had seen mass killings by the Soviets too…it’s like being caught between the devil and the deep blue sea!
You can fight with honour even on the ‘bad’ side, and even against your country of birth.
I dare say: if Lord Halifax had come to power, and the BLF/BUF had had control of the UK, I’d have gone off to Canada or the USA to fight against them and Hitler and the Nazis.
At the same time/in the same breath: in Spain in 1936 I’d have been fighting alongside the Fascists against the Communists.
Why the change? All I can say is that Communism then seemed to be the greater evil.
A man makes his choices bereft of all guidance but that which his innermost conscience and Soul see fit to provide. As such: He lives with those choices, or dies thereafter.
Compassionate and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.
The Nazis want them to think so.They frighten the POWs by “Siberia and Sltalin” - they way that Goebbels later used to “rise the moral” the defeating German troops in the east.They actualy had a choice. Endeed from up to5 millinon of soviet pows, captued by Germans within a war. just less then 500 000 ( i.e 10%) comes to colloboration).After the liberation of the Red Army just tiny part of POWs were repressed or judged ( and executed). Actualy from 2 mln POWs liberated by Red Army ALIVE- 70% of them were send back to Army’s service.
Good to see you posting again Chevan, hope all is well…
Thanks Nick. I can’t live without this forum so long . Everything is OK. I hope you too…
PS. wow 5++ thousands of your posts, mate. You didn’t waste the time here…
Me too.
I assume you’ve spent the winter trying to keep the sump oil in the Lada from freezing, which would be a full time job which would stop you posting here. 
Nicht, i was almost mobilized in Army because the Jepane was ready to start the new war for Kuril Islands couple of months ago. .I had to modify my Lada to carry the small aa-defence launch system on its roof. just in case if Japanese want to bomb my mother-russia:)/But God has punished them first by that terrible earthquake.
I glad to see you too mate, hope you’ve saved all the functionalities and humor after Fucushima’s fallout has reach the Australia…
This would be Stage 1 of the modification?
Or would this be the result of too much AA weight on the roof?
You’ll be glowing in the dark from Fukishima (which the news reports always pronounce “Fookishima” rather than the usual, and eminently appropriate, way of pronouncing ‘U’ as ‘uh’) long before it has any effect down here.
I have to say that I have the greatest respect for the bravery of the technicians, firefighters and others going into the plant to try to control it.
But it’s looking more and more like it’s going to end up like Chernobyl, encased in concrete.
Nein, it’s the ww2 era soviet copy of germnan half-track Sd.kfz.251 on chassis of captured Fiat;)
Or would this be the result of too much AA weight on the roof?
more lileky this is result of too drunk driver;)
You’ll be glowing in the dark from Fukishima (which the news reports always pronounce “Fookishima” rather than the usual, and eminently appropriate, way of pronouncing ‘U’ as ‘uh’) long before it has any effect down here.
but don’t live even close to Pacific ocean ;)Hope you too…
I have to say that I have the greatest respect for the bravery of the technicians, firefighters and others going into the plant to try to control it.
Without doubts- they make all possible.I heard they has formed special Kamikadzes unit of 50 mans who was ready to die preventing the fallout out. I will pray for them…
But it’s looking more and more like it’s going to end up like Chernobyl, encased in concrete.
It almost reach the Chernobyl doze of radiactive fallot.
Here is the inteesting anaisys
http://vinceseconomicblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/fukushima-radiation-release-rivals-chernobyl/
The radiation released by the stricken Fukushima nuclear plant already rivals and in one sense exceeds the Chernobyl catastrophe according to Austria’s Central Institute for Meteorology and Geodynamics, even as media spin downplays the severity of the crisis despite the fact that the problems at the plant show no signs of abating
So mate, take your *** and fly to me in Russia. Untill not too late;)