S.A.S.

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#41

David Sterling had originally got permission from Gen. Aunchinlek and Ritchie to form the SAS after he snuck into Ritchie’s office. The British High Command gave Sterling a promotion to Captain and a slection of 6 officers and 60 recruits from the old Layforce formation. The objective was to use a infiltration by air. The unit was designated L Detachment, Special Air Service Brigade. The L was to make the Germans think that the force had units from A to L. The actual stength was just over a platton in size. After the first and last disaterous jump in the desert, Stirling searched for an alterative method of infiltration. The LRDG suited the SAS perfectly until the war in North Africa was over. The LRDG would now serve as a part of this special force. The SAS finally grew to Brigade strength by 1944. this included 1 and 2 SAS Regt. 1st and 4th French para Btn and a Belgian Ind Coy. This force would serve in France, Germany and Italy. The Italian campaign is their most extensive of the war.

The SAS insignia was original designed by Sgt. Bob Tait after L Detachment held a contest for best design. The sword IS Excalibuer and the slogan “Who Dares Wins” is Stirlings. The wings are the idea of Paddy Mayne. The original SAS beret was considered white but was quickly changed to sand tan. After amalgamation to the airborne forces, the beret became Red.

P.S. all this from memory, no copies of anything!!

#42

The Special Air Service was formed in Kabrit, Egypt, The original conceipt
Was the brain child of A Lt David Stirling, A Scotish liard of the Scots Guards regiment, who had been a member of layforce commandos,
The initail members were Lt David Stirling (UK) Lt Jock Lewis (Aus) Lt Robert Blair (Paddy)Mayne (Irl) Bob D’Arcy (UK) John (Gentleman Jim) Almond (UK) Pat Riley (US) Reg Seeking (UK) Bob Lilley (UK) Jim Blakeny (UK) Bob Bennet (UK) Johnny Cooper (UK) and Dave Kershaw (UK)

The Long range desert Group were initialy responsible for picking up S.A.S troops after there mission, but were later used for transporting troops too and from missions.
The name Special Air Service came from Dudley Clark’s deseption unit in Eygpt Clark visited Stirling in hospital and gave him permision to use his units name. Stirling’s unit became L Detachment The Special Air Service.

The Cap Badge Is not a winged dagger as is wildly believed but Excaliber
The parchute wings are the flaming wings of cairo with a parachute in the middle instead of an eagle, the moto Who Dares Wins was Daivid Stirling’s idea.

The Numbers relating to the Regiments were also a desception to confuse the enemy as to how many units there actualy were.

the modern day S.A.S has three units 21 S.A.S (The Artist Rifles(V))
22 S.A.S (Regular Army)
23 S.A.S (V)

#43

I thought the sword was also possibly the Sword of Damocles.

#44

The S.A.S cap badge was designed by Bob Tait, the sword is Excaliber, he called it the flamming sword of Excaliber, the original moto he came up with was Strike and Destroy, which was changed by stirling to Who Dares Wins, The Wings were designed by Jock Lewis, he saw them over the shops in Cairo, they had an eagle in the middle which he changed to a parachute.

#45

I was under the distinct impression that originally the capbadge was supposed to be a flaming sword.
When they arrived from the Gyppo manufacturer the flames looked more like wings and it was left at that,
there being little point in ordering new ones as apparently there was a war on or something.

#46

I can only go of the research i have done, My information comes from taped interviews from 20 years ago with, David Stirling, Bob Bennet, Johnny Cooper, Jim Almond, Reg Seeking, Dave Kershaw and Pat Riley.

Those were the guys who were there. The then surviving Originals.

#47

Sounds good, do you have a link to these interviews ?

#48

The interveiws are in a book called, The originals the secret history of the british SAS By Gorden Stevens.

#49

Cheers for that Andy, I’ll have a read of it soon.

#50

I just posted a pic in the BLACK AND WHITE section of th gallery that shows what appears to be British SAS returning from a mission. Looks awesome.

#51

WW2 admin, I’ve just checked the photo you posted. I dont believe they are SAS. The Dieppe raid was in 1942 and IIRC SAS didn’t operate in France until 1944.

#52

Thanks for the info!

#53

The pommie SAS was actually disbanded and then reformed in order to meet the communist insurgent threat of the late 50’s and 60’s in Malaya, Borneo etc. The SAS role, today, is very similar to that of both the LRDG and the then-SAS, with the SBS and RM Commandos providing their input in their own specialist environments. i.e. Commandos - recovery and harrassment missions associated with sea-borne insertions. SBS also has long range/strategic reconnaissance in mostly maritime environments.
The SAS is tasked with strategic recon, plus “Special Projects” i.e. counter-terrorism. :shock:

#54

Great info. I was always under the impression that SAS started in 1942, but I appear to be wrong (again) :oops:

#55

I am in communication with an ex-member of the British SAS. He doesn’t ‘do’ computers and Internet, not unreasonably since he is 84, so it is snailmail. I first met him in the early 1970s. We exchange a few letters.

He was already in the army at the outbreak of WW2, volunteered for the Commandos, trained in Scotland and was picked for the SAS. Not for that first disastrous mission, but shortly thereafter. He fought in North Africa, Italy, France, Germany, Norway. His chief for most of the time was Roy Farran 2SAS if that means anything to you all. He was presented with the croix de guerre for his efforts in France with Leclerc.

If you want to pass a message to him or perhaps ask a question, if it is reasonable and not likely to be too upsetting, I offer to pass one or two things on to him. Remember though he is getting on in years, so don’t expect too much detail if you ask questions. Also, the time delay is at least a month between the question and the next letter which may or may not contain an answer!

Of course, the first stop to learn the history of the SAS is not my contact but a book like “Stirlings men” by Gavin Mortimer ISBN: 0304367060 or “Daggers Drawn: Real Heroes of the SAS and SBS” Mike Morgan ISBN: 0750930586

#56

Hi mate and welcome aboard. Others would do well to emulate your first post. Informative, friendly and offerring to help.

Glad to have you on board and thanks for the info.

#57

The Long Range Desert Group was in existance sometime before the SAS and did have an offensive role attacking German airbases and other rear area targets.

21 is so called because it is an amalgamaition of 1st and 2nd SAS. 22 and 23 are next in sequence. I can’t remember how 21 got its association with the Artist Rifles buit I’m quite sure that the Artist Rifles were not artsy conscripts of WWII but artsy volunteers of WWI.

#58

Hi all, just dropping in for a visit.

During World War 1 most of the conscripts to the 38th Rifles were artists and poets and writers etc.

It is quite common for units during wars to be made up of men called from the same area and/or the same trade. Because of this they were often nick named what this association was. There was also a Bankers Battalion (made up from City bankers), Post Office Rifles (made up of posties) and the Pals battailions such as the Manchester Pals and Halifax Pals. who all came from those areas.

The Artists came from the fact that a group of artists formed the volunteer unit in the 1850s. The unit has always been TAVR or Territorial Army Volunteer Reserve (although with different names). Not Militia whose units never served abroad but were raised to defend Britian in event of invasion. There were once three Bns the 20th, 28th and 38th who were the Artists Rifle Corps. Basically they were part of the Rifle Brigade but wore a different capbadge to the others units.

One point to note however is it may seem comical that a Bn of artists was formed, and you could be forgiven for making comic references to arty farty types running around playing soldiers but do not. The unit saw much fighting during WW1 in the places now famous for the most appalling conditions and savage fighting, it was annailated several times and was always formed again from mainly artists, by the end of the war 1 in 3 members held awards for gallantry. Many of the most famous poems about WW1 came from poets in the ranks of the Artists rifles. They also served with distinction during the Baor war.

WW1 battle honours include Ypres 1917, Passchendaele, Cambrai 1918, Pursuit to Mons and Flanders 1914-18

Famous people amongst its ranks included Barnes Wallace who invented amongst other things the Wellington bomber and the Bouncing bombs of Dam Busters fame and the smaller version High Ball(?) for attacking ships. He also designed Tall Boy and Grand Slam bombs which were massive bombs designed to penetrate deep under ground and basically shake the target area apart.

Also Wilfred Owen, who wrote many poems about the War, and Noel Coward.

Some links for further info

www.artistsrifles.com/ artists-rifles-regiment.htm

www.hcu.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/jtap/board/config.pl?noframes;read=2155

www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/specfor/SAS.htm

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/ARTrifles.htm

Also a point to note, the Artists capbadge is on the one side of the entry to the Old College building at Sandhurst, a flick back to the days when the Bn was used as an Officer training unit I think.


The Bn capbadge.

The association with the SAS came about because for a long time various people had kept the SAS alive, by forming a plt here and a section there to keep the skills and experience in the army. Luckily the powers on high eventually allowed the forming of a specific regiment. Although TA it was actually a little bit more full time than the powers probably realised. The unit needed a parent division and so the Rifle Brigade was picked, and the Artists Rifles title was used. Thus the new unit was named 21st Battalion, Special Air Service (Artists Rifles) of the Rifle Brigade.

For any capbadge collectors out there, it is worth noting that you can often find the Artists capbadge listed as 21 SAS, it is not. This is probably someway of increasing the appeal of the capbadge. As far as I am aware the moment the 21 SAS were formed they wore their own capbadge, the winged dagger, not the artists capbadge. Also early on the SAS wore a white beret, with the sandy beret only being worn about the 1950s I think to represent their origins in the desert. The artists capbadge is mainly used as a identifier for 21 to seperate them from 22 and 23.