Should Rudolph Hess have been kept in Prison for all his lfe?

World War II German Military
#21

In all honesty, I don’t expect to see those archives opened nor made available in either my lifetime, nor those of my children.
I’d predict it will be something like 2095 before the information is ever seen, if then.

The information is, after all, recorded on paper, and the paper is of LOW quality, which means the paper itself most likely will not physically last long enough to be examined as to information content.
In parallel with this is that the information on the paper is most likely certain to NOT ever be recorded digitally.
It will thus be lost forever, and disappear from history, and human memory.

This will have been achieved quietly, without the attendant cries of “barbarism” as would have arisen from the academic and historiographic communities had the paper and information been destroyed by Govt. fiat in 1945.

Kind and Respectful Regards Deaf my friend, Uyraell.

#22

Perhaps it wasn’t so much what he knew that could be of value to the Allies which value, if any, had to diminish steadily as the war moved into the past, but knowledge which could be damaging to the Allies, or one of them.

In the absence of the relevant classified papers it’s just wild speculation, but Hess was the only senior, and possibly only, Nazi alive after the war who had had close contact with the former and reputedly pro-Nazi King Edward VIII before the war. Perhaps Edward or his wife made indiscreet comments which would have been damaging whenever they were revealed.

Following Edward’s accession, the German embassy in London sent a cable for the personal attention of Hitler himself.

In part, it read: “An alliance between Germany and Britain is for him (the King) an urgent necessity.”

Alan Lascelles, Edward’s private secretary, gave his own harsh judgment of the situation.

“The best thing that could happen to him would be for him to break his neck.”

Within the year Edward, pressurised by the Church of England, the government and royal courtiers, decided to abdicate.

In October 1937, Edward and his wife - by now the Duke and Duchess of Windsor - visited Nazi Germany.

They met Hitler, dined with his deputy, Rudolf Hess, and even visited a concentration camp.

The camp’s guard towers were explained away as meat stores for the inmates.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2701965.stm

Or maybe, and probably more likely, it was just that Hess had been the 2iC in Nazi Germany before and during the early part of the war so he was a figurehead who had to be kept in gaol as an example, even if the Allies couldn’t pin a capital crime on him.

#23

Have hope Uyraell, for even alot of the American Civil War documents survived, crude as the paper used was back then.

But no doubt over mans long violent history much has been just left alone for everyone’s sake. We tend to try to leave our nightmares in the dark.

Your friend,

Deaf

#24

Deaf my friend, my problem is that even if the paperware records survive, I do not truly believe the UK, German, or US or Russian Governments would conceive of any reason why the public should be told a truth or series of truths after so many decades of silence as to amount to a century or more of outright lies.

I am sufficiently cynical and mistrustful about/of ANY Government that I never believe it has the best interests of history nor its’ own citizens at heart.

Rather, a government will lie, prevaricate, obfuscate, deny, and generally serve the purpose of lining its’ own politicians’ pockets: all the while deceiving the citizenry by saying it is caring for their interests and needs.

I’ve never believed otherwise of any Government, especially those that in My lifetime have lined the politicians’ pockets in NZ.

All of which cynicism goes a mighty long way to explaining why I have no hope of ever seeing the UK Hess records, or the UK Pearl Harbour records, for that matter.

Kind and Respectful Regards Deaf my friend, Uyraell.

#25

This is incorrect.

Most of the charges brought against the Nazi hierarchy at Nuremberg were based on international laws, treaties, and customs and conventions of war which were in effect prior to WW II, and which had been ratified by the German government.

#26

I’ve just finished reading the chapter on Hess in “Hitler’s Henchmen” by Guido Knopp.
Before that I didn’t know much about him except his flight to Britain.
I never realised that alliance with Britain was written as a ‘must-have’ in Mein Kampf. Maybe he really was trying to stop the anglo-german hostilities, even if only so Germany could concentrate on Russia.
I don’t think he should have stayed in prison all his life, because I think he was out of the war before the Nazis crimes reached their nadir. I got the impression that when the Einsatzgruppen were conducting mass shootings he was no longer a key player in the leadership, so they wouldn’t have involved Hess in that decision.
Maybe if he had shown remorse at Nurenberg he would have gotten out earlier, but then if he was mad I suppose he didn’t know what he was saying.

#27

Smoking Frog,

Do remember this. Part of punishment is not only to punish the wrong doer, but to MAKE AN EXAMPLE OUT OF THEM.

And they made an example out of Hess.

Deaf

#28

Under which law or jurisprudence is it possible to condemn a man to life imprisonment for the crime of seeking peace, risking his life and sacrificing his personal freedom? You can consider his act as a product of courage, naivety or insanity, but never a crime. Moreover, does this accusation justify covering the expenses of a prison-fortress for an old and sick prisoner?
In my humble opinion, this history only lacks an iron mask for being a perfect anachronism,

Respectfully,

#29

I dont know under which he could be, would you be so kind as to tell me under which he could not?
Further Horst, if you wish to post in a thread, do try to keep it original , your last post (#28) looks to be a rehash of a post made by another member (oddly enough banned ) Ref. #8.

#30

If I understand the events correctly, Hess, as a member of the Nazi Party was not tried for any of the acts you cite, but for an act you conveniently fail to mention; being a member of the Nazi Party and thus conspiring to commit aggressive war in violation of the Kellogg-Briand Pact to which the German government was a party.

I have absolutely no sympathy for members of the Nazi Party and only regret that any lived to be old enough to become frail and sick.

#31

horst,

He was not condemned for his parachuting into hostile territory to broker a peace deal. He was condemned for his actions as part of the Nazis.

Do not mistake his actions at one time as exoneration for his other deeds. He sure was no Oskar Schindler.

Deaf

#32

The Soviet Union was also adherent to the Kellog-Briand Pact of 1929, the URSS invaded Finland and two weeks after Hitler, Stalin invaded Poland, but he was not indicted at any Tribunal, he was funded and armed through the Roosevelt’s Lend and Lease Law, covered by Roosevelt and Churchil in his horrendous crimes ( Katyn) and supported in snatching the eastern part of Poland as was revealed by a BBC documentary not long ago. How would you explain that?

Regards,

#33

The USSR was an adherent to but not an original signatory to the Pact.

Germany, Japan and Italy were original signatories.

In the end it doesn’t matter much whether a nation was an original signatory or a subsequent adherent.

But, if you want to quibble about who breached a pact which had no sanctions, what about Japan’s aggression against the USSR in the Nomonhan conflict, several months before the Soviets attacked Finland?

France, like Germany, was an original signatory. What justifies Germany’s attack upon it’s war-renouncing cosignatory France?

Poland was an original signatory. What justifies Germany’s attack upon that co-signatory of a pact renouncing war?

Czechoslovakia was, with Germany, an original signatory. What justifies Germany’s attack upon that co-signatory?

How about just accepting the fact that Hitler and Stalin were a pair of stunningly ruthless ****s who had no regard for international law, or humanitarian considerations, which stood between them and their ambitions?

#34

None, I hope.

That is, after all, the ideal for which the Allies fought. And died.

Which was exactly the opposite of the regime of which Hess was the 2iC.

If that is so, then it follows that his boss and the Party his boss led, and of which Hess was deputy, should be considered “as a product of courage, naivety or insanity, but never a crime.”

It’s a pity that this thread already has a poll. Because I suspect that if I started one on whether or not all Nazi bosses deserved to be imprisoned or executed, the scale would go off the page on the ‘Yes’ vote.

#35

Horst, I call it tangential distraction, please keep to the topic of this thread.

#36

I explain it by reminding you that Hitler, Hess’s leader, attacked the Soviet Union and contrived a situation where the Western Allies were forced to choose a course of action where they temporarily cooperated with a bloody tyrant (Stalin) It would have been nice if Stalin and Hitler had been able to fight WW II supported only by their respective political parties but history seldom presents with such conveniently just opportunities.

Had Stalin, by a quirk of fate, not ended up on the Allied side, it’s quite possible that he could have wound up in the prisoner’s dock at Nuremberg. But just because one guilty party escapes justice is no reason to let all guilty parties off the hook.

I stated that I have no sympathy for the Nazi Party members and I don’t, but I have even less sympathy for Communist Party members and I have, in the past, put my life on the line fighting them. I would have done the same in WW II fighting against the Nazi’s and their brethren, the Japanese militarists, had I been alive at that time.

#37

Wizzard wrote:
“…It would have been nice if Stalin and Hitler had been able to fight WW II supported only by their respective political parties but history seldom presents with such conveniently just opportunities…”

Offering that convenient opportunity was exactly Hess´s mission when he flew to England.

Regards,

#38

Could you expand upon how it “was exactly Hess´s mission when he flew to England”
(stricly, Scotland, but perhaps that was a navigational error) and that his ‘mission’ was endorsed by Hitler and Co?

#39

Wizzard wrote:
“…It would have been nice if Stalin and Hitler had been able to fight WW II supported only by their respective political parties but history seldom presents with such conveniently just opportunities…”

Please explain that comment. It would not have been within anyone’s power to arrange something like that.

#40

“Hess’ mission” was one of a lone, mentally ill Hitler-sycophant. What bloodshed would “peace” have spared in the extremely remote event the British somehow decided to unseat Churchill and negotiations proceeded? At best, it would have been a cynical attempt to prevent a two front war and isolate the USSR prior to Germany’s violation of the Nonaggression Pact, which inevitably resulted in the deaths of millions of Soviet citizens and soldiers. A battle Hess must have known all-too-well would be prosecuted with the utmost ruthlessness and almost no consideration, nor provisions, for the civilian population and Red Army prisoners captured…