According this point Gen Nazy must used the all prisoners as slave. For the profit of economy and killed just who couldn’t work becouse they were of ill. Right?
So what could be the reason for total annihilation of prisoners?
Wow “continuous burn” its sound seriously… Look like “reactor”.
If you please show me the place of this reactor in the area photo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_concentration_camp
This is photo from Mosquito.
I think the continuous process means a great scale like the a big blast furnace. I don’t think this pocess should be in the furnances like this:
The Majdanek crematorium.
Cheers.
Pure hate.
The Nazi regime fed on hate.
Sorry, but I’m not the one with the obsession about questioning the numbers of Jews killed by the Nazis, so I don’t know the position of the crematoriums at the camp, though I did once read that they were outside the compound, so they are possibly outside the photo (there is an arrow on the map pointing to an ‘execution area’ outside the frame of the photo, so it might be near there) ?
I think the continuous process means a great scale like the a big blast furnace. I don’t think this pocess should be in the furnances like this:
The Majdanek crematorium.Cheers.
it is estimated that nearly 80,000 people were murdered at Majdanek, but not all were cremated in the furnaces, a large number were burned in large pyres around the camp.
Agree. The hate played the importaint role in Nazi Germany.
But here is the contradiction with common sense - you have to lead the total war, so you need to use any possibility for the victory. So why did must killed every body. I can understant the hight death rate of soviet POWS -60%. If they couldn’t to work the Germans simply shoted them. But if you wish to live - you get a chance to survive if you will work for the Germans.
That’s i can understand.
I know about race theries of Nazy - according them the slav was low race ( like and jews)
But how could be explaned the difference with statistic official of Holocaust and the cruel treatment with slav’s slaves?
Cheers.
No problems, sorry redcoat.
You know early i don’t notice to this , but since one times when i read article about Holocaust i found the contradaction with figures. In Soviet Union it was the common situation to overstimated the victims. thus they proved about 4 millions victims of Aushwitz. This is absolute nonsence was the basic fact of soviet propoganda.
Another example- do you hear about “soap from the human bodies”. This was also Soviet myth which at first time appeared in Nurenberg tribunal.
Its strange nobody didn’t bother this lie.
Don’t think i try to revise the Nazy. Those bastards killed one of my grandfather in 1942.
Cheers.
didn’t we bomb them to end the war one and prove our immense power to russia when soon after the cold war between the us and russia happened
i don’t know it maybe saved many lives but it destroyed 2 towns killed too much people and even now that act affects you because of radiation, years after people were dieing because of radiation. there would be less casaulites if the allies atacked japan.japan would have kapitulated because italy,3.reich and other countries did
Wow “continuous burn” its sound seriously… Look like "reactor
as for this…the prior posts are quite correct…the first body or bodies through the crematoriums would have heated the ovens to near 760 to 1150 °C (1400 to 2100 °F).the refractory bricks inside of the oven would have held the heat in and then it was a process of just loading more bodies in as each was finished.by doing this the ovens could be kept in constant operation for days at a stretch unitl they began to fill with bone fragments and had to be cleaned out.at those temperatures much of the fluids and soft tissue would quickly vaporize and very little material would be left.usually about roughly 3.5% of the body’s original mass (2.5% in children, but these figures vary greatly due to body composition).
Yes Trumen was enought pragmatic to send the Stalin sign ( a-bombing of Japane) when he “must to stop” in Asia.
The Japanese had already shown themselves to be willing to fight to the last man ,woman and child at Saipan and Okinawa, and had been quite public about the fact that they would make the Allies pay for every inch of Japanese soil…
There is the great difference between time of bettle for Okinawa andthe battle of august of 1945 when the Japanes had learned the USSR joined the war.
this theme has been discussed already in here
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4209&highlight=Home+Islands
The Japanes certainly know about problems between the USSR and UK/US and they probably hoped at the war conflict between us.
look for instance at Churchills “Operation Unthinkable”
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4151
In this way the Japane should get a chance for surrvival becouse if the USSR tied the allies troops in the Europe the Japane could continie resistence in the Asia.
No, they wouldn’t have…surrendering the country was completely abhorrent to the Japanes culture and mindset.For thousands of years the Japanese had been unconquered in their island home and they would have fought to the death for it…The only reason they did give up was because the Emperor ordered it…
Sorry sir but now we see the tupical american rasism where the japanes are represented as a suicidal idiot who will inevitable die for the Imperor inspate of the war has losed.
In fact they tryed to surrender through the Stalin but its obviously Washington could let them it on political reasons.
I/m sure this point come to the surface in the pitfull attempt to justify the decision of narrow circle of US politics to “execute the Japane”
May be you don’t know among peoples who doubt in the military nessisity of this bombing were a lot of USA hight officers.
http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm
Well Well mst savoy.
760-1150 C of constant heat without any gas/oil/wood supporting.
in the crematorium like that
with the sizes of home wood stove.
The new eneggy concept was borned here;)
I think we could decide the energetic problem of the world by the using the “Death bodies-Reactor-” ( with anallogy with “fast-neutron reactor”).
It is amazing why this stupid Nazy did not use this free haet for the production of energy in the Germany in 1944-45 when they had a great problems with resources.
Do you know the life expectancy of the furnances working in this mode of operation?
Ovens like those were actually much more delicate equipment than most people think. I can not remember completely right now, but the maintenance time was so high that tit approached the operational time.
i’m going to chalk this comment up to you not having an understanding of just how hot the the average human body can burn.the “gas/oil/wood supporting” comes from the fat in the bodies…one of the reasons that overweight people take about a 1/3 less time to cremate than thinner people do…secondly,…the ovens in your picture are not “the sizes of home wood stove”… they were large enough to put 2 adults in…the interior of the ovens are done with a heat shielding refractory brick that holds the heat in the oven without transfering it to the outside where it would be wasted.much of the “maintenance” was usually just having to clear the ovens of ash and bone fragments.according to a very elderly friend of my mother who was in aushwitz , due to the emaciated condition of many of the prisoners towards the end of the war, they were loading people 3 at a time into the ovens…4 if they were children.they had to pull out the body racks in the ovens with a metal pole because they were usually red hot…sorry…i’ll take the word of someone who was there as opposed to your word since you obviously weren’t there and seem hell bent on doing your best to push a neo-nazi, revisionist view of the holocaust…
Sorry sir but now we see the tupical american rasism where the japanes are represented as a suicidal idiot who will inevitable die for the Imperor inspate of the war has losed.
as for the japanese… much of you suppositions about the great influence of the soviets rolling an experienced mechanized army over an ill equipped and poorly organized kuantung army and how they were ready to take over the entire east is…well…suppositional bullshit…the soviets did not have the equipment neccesary for a full scale invasion of japan.also,since you obviously have spent little or no time in japan itself…you would not understand the simple facts of how deep national pride in that country goes.contrary to your opinion, i don’t think of the japanese as “suicidal idiots”. i don’t confuse fanatic nationalism with idiocy.to this day all ,at least all the ones i saw there,of the nation’s war memorials only speak of how the west ,and the US in particular,left the japanese no choice but to attack all of asia…also to this day the japanese goverment,unlike the germans, has NEVER apologized for any of the atrocities that its armies commited during the war…NEVER…from forced comfort women,the rape of nanking,the murder of hundreds of thousands of philipinos during the battle for manila,to their live desections of POWs as part of there bio-warfare program,etc.,etc…
this is one of the things that i hate about the internet in the last few years…people can put out the most illogical and under- or un-informed opinions out there and since its on the internet it must be true…it’s why i can’t stand wikipedia as a source…
Ugh, and how many cremations per day were made in those ovens you personaly woked at?
How long time did you spend working there?
What was the maintenance requierments of those ovens?
tomorrow I will answer on Kwantung army… to late… need sleep… getting crazy… want to bite someone… zzzzzzzz
given that it was a major mortuary in san diego ,ca. that had a contract with the city to handle the bodies of indigent people,it was fairly busy.averaged about 30-40 bodies a week…the ovens had no maintenance other than the propane burners getting clogged with ash sometimes.nothing funner than having to sift through the crap at the bottom to get to the burner elements…not…
Yes, and you spent there working for how many years?
30-40 a week … and you suggest we compare that to ovens we are discussing in here, right?
savoy6
maybe not, but what is coming through seems to be a belief that the A-bombs were dropped more to impress the soviets than to hasten the end of the war.also ,from both of you guys statements you seem to be of the opinion that the US spent the last year of the war doing more to get set to fight the russians that it was to invade japan.public opinion in america after the nazi surrender was of a “let’s beat these japs by any means neccesary and get our boys home” variety.
Yes, i think that the A-bombs were dropped for 2 reasons: shorten war and show USSR what US can do. Both were equaly important. But the second one had actually higher long term effect and therefor can be valued a bit higher.
Remember that the nucks did not change the outcome of the war (neither did the soviet attack). They just hastened it. Japan was defeated already. Roughly 95% by the USA and UK, and 5% by USSR. USA and USSR would have suffocated Japan in a blocade if the war continued. But I understand that no one wanted to wait with such gadgets in the pocket.
Remember that USSR and USA/UK have been rival during the whole war. It is common danger that brought them together. The less dange was becoming the more competition between Allies appeared. It is even true in the USA-UK relationship, let alone USSR affairs!
So in August 1945 they were thinking already about the future. Truman wanted to get out of the Yalta agrement and did not want to follow them, but it was generals who said that USA needs USSR and there would not be benefit to start the confrontation before Japan’s capitulation. The cald war did not start from one day to another, you know.
for the planners who were looking at such huge losses for an invasion the A-bomb was a stand off godsend.you have to remember that very few people knew about the manhattan project even after the first test bomb was set off.many of the PTO planners didn’t even know there was such an item until right before it was dropped.
Ordinary planner did not know. But there were number of people responsible for the war waging who did. If you know how a big company functions you understand.
The “get our bouys back” thing is for the public. The goverment makes descision based on also many other grounds.
A good summary of the practicalities facing an Allied, being primarily a US, invasion of Japan and considerations relating to use of the atom bombs is here.
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/giangrec.htm
When Truman decided enough was enough, and it was determined that despite the state of the home islands of Japan, there was still a viable threat.( Later discovered to be far more than was originally expected,) the decision was made to deploy the Bombs. Very few Americans feel guilty about it, I for one do not, It was needed at the time to end the war, without any additional loss of allied life. no amount of chin scratching, or logical obfuscation can convince me, or most every other American that it was not the correct decision to make.
Had Germany not surrendered when it did, there would have been additional missions.
Whilst I do agree that dropping the bomb ended the war earlier and did save lives of western soldiers. I believe WWII blurred the lines and transformed a previously highly moral country (USA) into child murdering mongrels.
The allies really caught up in the war crimes stakes in 1945 and honestly their commanders should have been tried along with the Nazi’s and Japanese after the war.
Who is worse the people who systematically killed millions of Jews or those who knowingly vaporised two entire cities full of innocent women and children.
Both are disgusting and low acts for civilized nations to undertake.
Shame on all of us.