It will do when I get the chance to read them - I’m at work at the moment running a test, and busy tonight. I’ll try to wade through them wednesday or thursday…
Um, you are incorrect sir. I believe around 60 civilians perished due to enemy action on that day…
You are absolutely right about those facts, my der Mr. Nickdfresh. The only problem is that in my previous statement I have used in all probability completely inapropriate phrase “previously undertaken enemy action”. Yes, you are absolutely correct - those civilians departed this life on that very day, but not a single civilian died because of the Japanese action on December 7 1951, or in 1961, or later on. That was my point.
And thank you for that highly balanced and intrinsically humanistic historical approach, which is more than evident in the following part of your post. I cannot refrain from expressing my personal appreciation of your eloquent address. Thank you from the bottom of my hart.
In addition, I want to emphasize just one highly important issue: generally, honorable ladies and gentlemen, there are two parts of the human dilemma. One is the belief that end justifies the means. That coursed philosophy, that deliberate deafness to sufferning, has become the monster in the human being. The other is the betrayal of the human spirit: the assertion of dogma that closes the mind, and turns a nation, a civilization, a human being into obedient or tortured ghosts. And that horrific achievement never was done by bomb, by gas, by grenade or bayonet. It was done by dogma, by ignorance, by distance of push-button order and the human act. That’s why we always have to touch people first. Otherwise we will be only ghosts. Forewer and a Day.
Once again, thank you very much. May God Almighty bless you all.
Major Walter Schmidt:not too nice.what is in the first picture?
First of all, I am not a troll, and second of all, it is not Great that I was away .Personally I thought I would be missed. I believe I have contributed much to the elaboration of war discussion and value the opinions of many users who have provided very good opinions to make this site great. I think the thread on nuking Japan has created a lot of mixed discussion and elaboration on points of view. In the long run, there is no doubt that blasting Japan with the A-bombs was the best thing we could of done to save humanity and thats what the consensus of this thread indicates.
I hope you will change your ways and no longer act like one. If you continue to act in the way that got you banned last time your stay here will be a short one!
You weren’t. Sort your life out and you may become someone who is missed when away for a bit, but that is nowhere near happening yet.
Why does forcing people to repeat ad nauseam stuff which is already on the site - indeed in this very thread - contribute to a discussion?
Largely thanks to Chevan, some time before you joined the site. Not something you can claim credit for, frankly…
I smell bull****. There is a small plurality in the associated poll suggesting this, but no clear consensus has yet emerged and nobody has changed their pre-existing opinions that I have noticed. Thus “no doubt” and “save humanity” are entirely unjustified superlatives.
dropping the atom bomb on japan was the quickest and easiest way to stop the butchery
That comment hits the nail on the head. There was so much slave labor and brutal atrocities committed by the Japanese that the Atomic bomb not only saved American lives but it stopped the butchery that was going on in Japan. Some people believe that the fuel used by the Enola Gay was too costly and that the weight of the Atomic bomb would cause the Enola Gay to consume too much gas and that we should of conserved gas on the Enola Gay. Well I beg to differ as no cost for fuelling the Enola Gay would be too high a price to ending the war.Drop the bomb and save humanity is my motto.
Indeed. How much did it speed up this happening and what is the net change in lives and human suffering? I note you aren’t addressing these questions at all.
Name one person saying this.
many years ago I heard both countries are waiting for an apology. its true, up to this 91 article.
Japan still waits for apology for the bombs
US still waits for pearl harbor apology. old grudges die hard???
These were striking results that seemed to suggest a public uneasiness over the fact that there has never been a formal apology by either country for its actions against the other.
still waiting. polls polls and more polls
[source](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CEED81131F93BA35751C1A967958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1)
I will tell you more than 1 person. There is me, then there is my brother, and my friend Louie who lives in Baltimore. They are saying this, so I have answeed your question.
[quote="“pdf27”]
Name one person saying this.[/quote]
Uh… so you’re begging to differ with yourself? WTF?
Did you look at my 2nd foto, Herman? Theres more stuff i couldnt look at… does anyone deserve this? And they were kids…
Get someone worth a damn.
Nobody deserves to die and nobody deserves the devastating effects caused by radiation or napalm or bombing etc. The point is, if you may wish to consider, if you had a choice of protecting your family, your wife your kids your father your mother etc etc at the expense of 100 strangers dying, which would you chose?. America had a choice and the choice was logistics and strategic. Killing Japanese at the time, given the attitude of the people and the direction of the war, was considered low priority over the deaths of American service men. I believe it it is said more than once that the A-bomb saved American lives. It is very very sad, but it is a fact of life that any country will save their own peoples over others. The American war effort demanded low causalities and conventional inland fighting with the Japanese people who were brain washed to fight to the death for their Emperor, was weighed against the use of the Atomic bomb. The end results was that many American lives were saved and the children of these American soldiers might not have been born today if inland fighting with Japan continued into 1946-47. The use of the Atomic bomb is and will always be a disgusting part of military options, but in war you have to chose the sacrifice of saving your own kind first. I don’t think seeing photos of children killed or mutilated by the effects of the atomic bomb will change my opinion that we did the right choice to save our own kind first. I do respect and become sad seeing the photo’s, but we didn’t start the war and neither did we have any major investment in controlling Japan the way we want to control the middle east today. Japan chose to attack America and many innocent Americans died and drowned in Pearl Harbour aboard subsided ships. Why don’t you show me the pictures of the drowning Americans, many that are teenagers that gasped their last breath who dies by the hundreds when the Japanese attacked innocent America who minded their own business. Lastly, I don’t see how any American who actually fought in WW2, would deny that they would rather live and not fight main land Japan over the use of any deterrent to end the war. We all want to live but the enemy that attacked America was Japan and the Atomic bomb saved American lives which is more important than saving the lives of your enemy.
whether a conventional explosion, or nuclear, the effects of exposure to either is not pretty. Yes, the images of those caught in the heat of the nukes were disfigured, but this is minor in comparison to a conventional explosion. When someone is caught in a conv. blast in a confined space, they, and everyone else are for lack of a better term jellified, right down to their bones. looks something like pizza sauce. Exposure in the open, close proximity, all of the fluids in the body are blown out of the body, leaving a definite powdery ash all around.(in groups of exposed, this powder may be several inches deep.) The remaining parts that have not been finely shredded, are dessicated, by the pressure wave, and the heat generated by the TNT, or Comp. B or whatever was used. This process leaves something that may look something like a body,or part of a body, but its all dry, like a bundle of rags, not really looking like a person, except for the bits of clothing still present.
The effects of a kinetic APDS round against tank armor is also worth mention here, while it isnt a chemical (explosive) energy round, it has he unique ability to create a severe pressure differential within the crew compartment of most tanks, (pre-Chabham) . As it passes through the tank, making only a small entry/exit hole, 50 mm or less, it will vacuum out most of what or who is inside the tank. What is left is a well homogenized goo covering the ground, and exit side of the vehicle.
Have I been sufficiently graphic my young friends? You ready to puke yet? try seeing it happen to people you know. War of any sort is a grizzly, inhuman thing. Unfortunately it is all too often foisted upon people who do not want it, but have no choice but to engage their attackers in like manner if they would survive as a race, a people, whatever. In the end, there is no difference in what gets you, its all horrible, painful, disgusting butchery. The use of nuclear weapons to end it more quickly is not wrong, its merciful to all concerned.
That’s about what I’ve been trying to say to Herman and others, but less graphically.
And less effectively.
For those opposed to the atom bombs on Japan, read tankgeezer’s whole post and grasp it.
It says about all that needs to be said, about the atom bombs. And war.
Why don’t use the GI’s “normal” bombs
Normal bombs also effective
They had used normal bombs, they needed something to shock the japanese out of their death ride. They had fire bombed cities, they had bombed cities, nothing worked untill they had nuked cities.
Also one thing to keep in mind about Japanese industry, allot of plane parts, ect were built in small homes in the major cities. The industry was very desentrilized, they buit the planes in a factory, but the parts to build the planes came from all over.
I heard that firebombing was cheaper and more effective than 1 nuke. Is that true? (yes I know about the shock nukes cause blah blah but as a fact is it true?)
Oh, and Herman, the Ammies on the battleships were combatants. even if they were 18. and about 60 civilians were killed that day. opposed to the number on nagasaki and Hiroshima. which is estimated to be 66000.