Somali pirates

Off-Topic Off Topic - Militaria
#21

True

The EU have and its done not a lot, the RN (bless 'em) are trying they’re best but with limited resources there’s not a lot they can achieve. Our European cousins, whilst willing, have contributed little. The UN did some time ago give all Navies free reign to enter somali territorial waters but again this has achieved little. Interestingly it has been the up and coming powers (china & india) whom have been most active, testing the waters (no pun intended) for future military actions methinks?

Yeah, most European Navies just don’t care enough, whereas the UK have traditionally always shown a strong interest in the Horn of Africa and the Suez Canal in general…
I just don’t understand how does pesky pirates always manage to board these ships?! One would think that a radar or sonar would pick their boats up in time and allow task forces to send gunboats or helicopters or something to deter them…

#22

Latest news on Somalia

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/NavyEscortsFoodAidShipsIntoSomalia.htm

#23

These are very small boats, with correspondingly small radar signatures. Plus, they are frequently converted fishing boats - so unless you get eyes-on you’re never going to have a chance of telling which they are. In fact, even if you do you may be unable to tell the difference until they pull the AK-47s out from under tarpaulins and launch an attack.
Historically, pirates have never been stopped at sea but when you capture or destroy their land bases. So it will be here.

#24

Good point. But with these guys, you can’t help but wonder if that’s actually going to stop them.

You’d have to seriously bomb the shit out of them, and that would probably have too many civilian casualties to justify.

I’d rather suggest armed security and a 150mm cannon on each ship. That should do the trick :mrgreen:

#25

One of the reasons pirates can board ships and overcome the crews is that these days such ships are highly automated with few crew members. Fewer people means less guys on duty with more onboard systems to monitor…

#26

Very true. It still impresses me that you hear very little of crews fighting back - that might be the reason.

The UN should make a nice trap, using a big tanker whose crew consists entirely of Spec-Ops. That would teach them :smiley:

#27

Theres the core of it. Piracy off the African Horn, or in the South China Sea, or in Indonesian waters, is not a matter of some unemployed thugs. Those guys can be identified by their lack of interest in holding the ship. They board, steal, and leave. Where the ship is held there is a well led organization behind it. The leaders identified likely targets, did their research, and waited for the right opportunity.

In the case of the Asian seas piracy has tapered off slightly. The local governments made the effort to crack down. The most important part of that was giving a warning to the ‘powerfull men’ who were backing the piriates financially and organizing their logisitcs, intellegence, communications, recruiting.

#28

And how might that warning be delivered, for maximum effect?

I have an idea or two, but they’re rather piratical in their own way.

#29

Precision Guided Munitions usually convey a point quite well :wink:

#30

The problem is they can’t deliver the warning to the higher-ups anymore after that…

#31

I actually meant to target the higher ups with the precision guided munitions…if the guy telling you to go hijack a ship suddenly goes up in a ball of flame that could possibly change your mindset a little.

#32

In the case of China. They grabed the most convienent offender, siezed all his business assets and property, leaned on all his family including cousins and his business associates, and shot him after a fair trial. The word got around. Now only the hard core gangsters are still in the business on that coast. Or maybe a few with very high ‘party connections’. Dont know enough about Phillipines politics to say, although US Special Ops units are still working with the PI government on internal security issues. In the case of Indonesia it has been a matter of fighting local leaders to regain control of the law enforcement in particular areas. Back in the 1990s both the Indonesian and Chinese governments turned up evidence the local police and coast guards were involved in the piracy. This was not suprising in the case of Indonesia. A number of mid level managers in the law enforcement or public safety organizations had been prosecuted for embezzeling the pay and operating funds for their districts. Some police or coast guard posts experinced large scale desertion because they were not being paid.

There have been several articals on this subject in the ‘US Naval Institute Proceedings’ over the past decade. Including a very recent one criticizing USN leaders for “poor leadership” in attcking the problem in the past three years. (For those who dont know ‘Proceedings’ is a high profile magazine filled with articals authored by USN officers. A carefull read of its pages can give some good clues to what the the internal fights in the USN are.)

#33

i still dont see how these ships can be overrun…what about this…any boat that goes more than 10 miles off shore will be sunk-period…who will complain?..somalia doesnt even have a government…who really cares about somalia?..also, can the pirates really sink a ship whith limited weapons?..an AK or a few rpg’s?..what do they accomplish if they do?

doug

#34

Who will complain? The civilized world. I’m all for giving these pirates a short sharp shrift, however, sinking every boat? What about the few legit fishermen who still try to make ends meet? I’m sorry Abdul but we slotted your father because he went 10 miles out to sea, so you’ll have to starve.

Possibly the somalis, although there isn’t much of a functioning central government there are several administrations of varying type who are trying very hard to establish their own governance. Also Saudi Arabia care in a big way. It is no coincidence that the Islamic Courts army was able to take the capital over two years ago - with a ‘little’ Saudi help.

It’s not about sinking ships. It’s about seizing them and then flogging and ransoming everyone and thing on board. A company is hardly likely to pay out for a sunken ship.

#35

Not enough ammo in all the world. Those waters are covered over with small craft of all types. Aside from the residual fishermen they are hauling every type of miscl cargo and passengers. Any cargo too cheap or small to interest the larger freight carriers.

Used refridgerators discarded in Yemen to Africa, a sack of low grade diamonds or other industrial jemstones, unsellable car parts from Saudia Arabia for a trader in Mogadishu, a handfull of men hired to work as garbadge collectors in Mecca. These small craft are like the worn pickup trucks on US roads or the vans of British streets packing about the bits not worth the $300 cost of a licensed transport company.

Trying to pick the one boatload of men hired to do a hijacking out of 1000+ boats and ships on any particular day is ‘difficult’.

#36

For hints on how to deal with this problem effectively a look at how the past piracy problems were eliminated might be usefull. The Romans suppressed pirates in the Med for a couple centuries.

#37

Well I see that the U.S. Navy has captured 16 Somali pirates while the Russian Navy captured an additional 10.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090213/ap_on_re_mi_ea/piracy

They should have wrapped them in an anchor chain and thrown them back in the water but at least someone is doing something.

#38

With the French doing much the same to the Barbary pirates…

#39

Sadly, bombing the shit out of major coastal cities is a bit frowned upon nowadays…

#40

i wouldnt say that im a cruel person just a practical one…no boats = no pirates…once again no one really cares about somalia…if they would have there would have been an government for the last 15+ years…cant the crew lock themselves in a part of the ship and bar entrance to it?

doug