Sukhoi T-50 prototype unveiled

Off-Topic Off Topic - Militaria
#21

I remember reading somewher that the XB-70 (beautiful machine by the way) was worth 3 times it’s weight in gold ! I wonder if there is some truth in this…:confused:[FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]

HISTORY: [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
First Flight [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
21 September 1964 [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Service Entry [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
did not enter service [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
CREW: [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
(XB-70A) two: pilot, co-pilot
(B-70A) four: pilot, co-pilot, navigator/bombardier, defensive systems officer [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
ESTIMATED COST: [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
$700 million (prototype) [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
AIRFOIL SECTIONS: [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Wing Root [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
0.30 Hex (Mod) [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Wing Tip [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
0.70 Hex (Mod) [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
DIMENSIONS: [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Length [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
185.83 ft (56.69 m) without pitot tube
192.17 ft (58.63 m) with pitot tube [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Wingspan [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
105.00 ft (32.03 m) [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Height [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
30.75 ft (9.38 m) [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Wing Area [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
6,298 ft² (586.2 m²) [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Canard Area [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
415.6 ft² (38.68 m²) [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
WEIGHTS: [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Empty [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
300,000 lb (136,365 kg) [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Normal Takeoff [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
534,700 lb (243,045 kg) [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Max Takeoff [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
542,000 lb (246,365 kg) [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Fuel Capacity [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
internal: unknown
external: unknown [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Max Payload [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
20,000 lb (9,070 kg) planned for production B-70 [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
PROPULSION: [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Powerplant [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
six General Electric J-93 afterburning turbojets [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Thrust [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
180,000 lb (800.71 kN) [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
PERFORMANCE: [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Max Level Speed [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
at altitude: 2,056 mph (3,310 km/h) at 73,000 ft (22,270 m), Mach 3.1
at sea level: unknown
cruise speed: 2,000 mph (3,200 km/h) at 72,000 ft (21,965 m), Mach 3.0 [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Initial Climb Rate [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
unknown [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Service Ceiling [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
77,350 ft (23,600 m) [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Range [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
typical: 3,725 nm (6,900 km) [XB-70]
typical: 6,600 nm (12,230 km) [B-70]
ferry: unknown[FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
g-Limits [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
unknown [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
ARMAMENT: [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Gun [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
none [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Stations [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
production model designed with 2 internal bomb bays [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Air-to-Air Missile [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
none [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Air-to-Surface Missile [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
none [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Bomb [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
up to 14 nuclear bombs planned [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Other [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
none [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
KNOWN VARIANTS: [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
XB-70A-1 [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
First prototype that was capable of only Mach 2.5 due to structural and aerodynamic limitations [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
XB-70A-2 [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Second prototype with a redesigned wing, structural improvements, and improved hydraulics allowing flight at Mach 3, vehicle was lost after an in-flight collision [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
XB-70A-3 [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Proposed third prototype, cancelled during construction [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
B-70A [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Proposed production model; 200 were to be built, cancelled [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
RS-70A [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
Proposed reconnaissance model; 150 were to be built, cancelled [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
KNOWN OPERATORS: [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
United States (US Army Air Force)
United States (NASA) [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]

#22

In fairness to the Iraqis, I was under the impression that the Iraqi central air defense system was a patched together network of Western and Eastern Block systems. And that it was the French that essentially designed their air defense network–modeling the basic procedures and planning of the French military–and whom trained the Iraqi personnel in said procedures. Therefore, the French as co-belligerents were simply able to largely betray the planning, OPSEC and modus operandi of their previous clients and contribute greatly to the Coalition air campaign in Desert Storm…

#23

No problem, my dear Mr. Pdf 27 – I have just finished my long-lasting work day, so we are all equal. :wink:

And I absolutely do share your views about that sorrowful factual arrestation of technical advancement in so called “modern” aircraft constructions, although my personal opinion is that - if we are really inclined to stir up that hornets nest - we have to reconsider some earlier events – cancellation of the Republic F 103 project, rejection of the Vickers-Wallis Swallow, or the Myasishchev M-56… But, after all, that is not so important. The most important, and in the very same time utterly sad thing is the fact that some forty or fifty years ago those magnificent engineers did things that most people haven’t even heard of, and yet all those marvelous things remained of absolutely no use. Very depressing, indeed. :frowning:

On the other hand I don’t think that my words are exceedingly harsh toward the F 117. For heavens sake, my dear Mr. Pdf 27, the Air Force officials have said in 1990 that “no existing air-defense system can be sure of detecting these planes at great enough distances to intercept or shoot them down”, and when that myth was busted they started to blame lack of the computational power! Sweet Jesus - are they claiming now that the CRAY-1 supercomputer, which was extensively used by the F 117 team, and which allowed great data-quantities to be processed quickly and economically and has been invaluable in solving complex calculations on numerous projects was inadequate? But we were told previously that Mr. Dennis Overholser, a software engineer who used that CRAY-1 supercomputer successfully developed a program that could model the scattering from those faceted shapes, and to predict their Radar Cross Section in a reasonable amount of time. Furthermore, we were told that Lockheed had a computer model which could predict the radar signature - something that the competition did not have. Are they claiming now that they actually played Pacman on the CRAY-1 all the time? :o

On the other hand, as far as I remember, NATO actually newer hurled all really available forces at Iraq in the First Gulf War. German armed forces, for example, never participated in it. But, strictly theoretically, bigger problem actually is the fact that numerous Western analysts have oversaw the detail that the First Gulf War represented an tactical aberration. Those analysts quite reasonably argued that the initial air strikes achieved not only the air superiority, but even total paralysis of enemy forces, thus allowing for the first time in history administration of the aerial coup de main that brought on the Iraq’s defeat.

However, it was not widely noticed that application of the long preparatory precise bombardments across a broad, constantly mobile front with a continuously changing Schwerpunkt (envisioned mode of the Soviet offensive operation in Western Europe), dictated by numerically overwhelming land forces and much denser air defense environment enlarged with a layered defensive system of radars, SAMs, SIGINT/ELINT devices and a huge manned plane fighter interceptor fleet, is not possible with machines like the F 117. After all, that’s why completely different airplanes, like the Fairchild-Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II and Panavia Tornado were developed. :slight_smile:

And yes, my dear Mr. Windrider – the North American XB 70 Valkyrie indeed was a beautiful airplane. As far as I remember, somewhere in my old papers I do have a blueprint for a stealth low-radar and infrared profile penetrator, which used those magnificent folding wing tips too. Don’t worry - I shall find that project. That’s a promise! :slight_smile:

In the meantime, here is another stealth proposal made by Lockheed. Direct influence of the legendary SR 71/YF 12-A is quite obvious:

Supersonic Stealth Penetrator, Lockheed – 1985

My God – what a beautifully streamlined machine! It really is amongst my all-time flying favorites. :cool:

Well, that’s all for today, honorable ladies and gentlemen. Another busy day will start after… 5 hours only! You know, from time to time even Librarians have to take a brief nap to recharge their batteries…

In the meantime, as always – all the best! :wink:

#24

Since this statement is also patent nonsense (it is easier to shoot down a plane at closer distances, as it is to detect it, so if this thing overflew a manually aimed gun site close enough it’s toast) I personally blame whatever idiot they had as a spokesman, rather than the aircraft.

I beg to quibble with this one. It IS possible with machines like the F-117, provided they are not used in isolation, but are instead used as part of a coordinated plan with other aircraft, and on appropriate targets. It may be that there are specific targets that the F-117 can attack with relative impunity, and that these targets contribute to the overall plan. If it can do so with less support than a conventional aircraft, then including the F-117 in the plan is a more efficient use of resources and so enables more damage to be done for a given time period.

#25

XB-70 price : it’s not 3 times it’s weight in gold, it’s 10 times !!!

(from http://www.unrealaircraft.com/classics/xb70.php)

In 1958 the project came together, and the aircraft had a name, the B-70. After passing through five separate company design numbers with North American, the B-70 would go ahead as their design NA-278. It would be plagued by a series of structural problems largely related to its ground-breaking technology, and very soon changing government views would threaten the future of the project.

About 70% of the Valkyrie was to be of a new stainless steel. The interior structure was mostly corrugated sheets, and the skin was a brazed honeycomb sandwich of very thin steel, yet very strong. The parts most subjected to heat were of a material never before used in an aircraft, René 41. Aerofoil surface edges were machined to extreme sharpness.

The six GE engines were housed in an engine box under the wings, profiled to generate compression lift. On “zip fuel” one engine alone made more noise than any air-breathing engine in history. Development of the two prototypes was to cost around $1,500M, making them the most expensive two aircraft built to that date, and worth, according to one estimate, about ten times their weight in gold.

In mid-1959, the B-70’s future came into question, with enormous expenditure going into missile systems. Manned aircraft were considered in some quarters to be near-obsolete. To make matters more awkward, the expensive boron fuel program was cancelled.

Then, in December 1959, the B-70 project itself was cancelled, except for completion of a single prototype. The planned first flight was rescheduled from January to December, 1962. It was still hoped that by 1966 an SAC wing might use B-70s if the pro-missile lobby could be persuaded to change their views.

After a review in 1960, the program was partially restored, and allowance was made for up to twelve fully-operational B-70s to be built, in addition to the prototype. In March 1961, during the Kennedy administration, it was still held that missile development made the B-70 unjustifiable. It was reduced to the status of a Mach 3 research project, with an airframe potentially useful as a bomber. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara promptly cut back the program to three prototypes, which were ordered on 4th October, 1961; but the third was cancelled a few weeks later, leaving only aircraft with the USAF numbers 62-001 and 62-207.

The USAF tried to keep some promise in the project by changing the role of the B-70 to strike-reconnaissance late in 1962, and temporarily redesignated the aircraft RS-70. They proposed an initial delivery of sixty RS-70s to enter service in 1969 and a further 150 the year after. Apart from a slight flicker of interest from the House Armed Services Commission, it was wishful thinking on the USAF’s part, the more so when the existence of the purpose-built Lockheed A-12, which had also been under development since the late 1950s, was revealed to President Johnson late in 1963 and announced to the world in February 1964.

The first XB-70 was nearly complete in late 1962 when electrolytic corrosion between the various grades of steel used in its structure was discovered. Extensive inspection and rebuilding took up a further two years. In 1963 funding dried up, and the XB-70 project was left to starve, existing only as a research project. The first flight was pushed ahead to late 1963 for the first prototype, and mid-1964 for the second.

Assembly of the first XB-70A was completed in mid-1963, but solution of a fuel leak problem took another eighteen months. Finally, on May 11, 1964, the XB-70A emerged from its hangar at Palmdale, California. Earlier releases of information had not fully prepared its audience for its size, its sleek lines, and its poised menace.

The canard design enabled the foreplane to be used to assist with trimming the aircraft across a wide speed range from a minimum 150 kts. (278 km/h) landing speed, up to Mach 3; they could also serve as flaps. The compression lift derived from the shock wave at the front of the intakes was a retained benefit, and apart from boosting lift by as much as 30%, also reduced drag by allowing shallower angles of attack. The tilting wing tips were kept level on takeoff, and tilted down to 25° at low speeds and altitudes. They served to minimise trim changes in pitch. At high speeds and altitudes, they would be dropped further, to 65°, enhancing compression lift.

A variable-geometry system was fitted to the nose, allowing a ramp forward of the cockpit to be raised for supersonic flight or lowered for a direct forward view. This visor was merely aerodynamic. The cockpit was sealed behind a vertical pressure-bearing flat screen.

Inside their compartment, the four crew members were provided with airliner comfort and could work in their shirt-sleeves. They sat in cocoon-like seats with clamshell doors which, in the case of pressurisation loss, would provide them with individual sealed escape capsules. The capsules contained their own oxygen bottles and emergency supplies, and basic controls to close the throttles and trim for an emergency descent, whilst monitoring the instruments through a window in the capsule. The capsules could be re-opened at a safe altitude, or rocket-ejected through jettisonable roof panels.

A single bay between the engine ducts and engines could carry groups of any nuclear bombs used by SAC. The bay had doors which slid open automatically at the last moment before weapon release. Although not part of the requirment, studies were also made into various external ballistic weapon loads.

On its first flight on 21st September, 1964, the XB-70 was flown by Colonel Joe Cotton and North American’s chief test pilot Alvin S. (‘Al’) White. The aircraft failed to achieve Mach 1 due to an inability to retract the main undercarriage. Number 2 engine suffered foreign object damage; and another fault locked the two left rear main tyres, which blew on touchdown. In general, flight development was encouraging and proceeded much as predicted.

Both prototypes reached Mach 3 for the first time on their 17th flights, respectively on October 15th, 1965 and January 3, 1966. The XB-70A was flown for the first time using the crew capsule controls on December 20, 1965.

On 8th June, 1966, aircraft 62-207 was to complete various tasks then pose, with a small group of other General Electric-engined aircraft, for some publicity shots for GE. Al White was to be pilot. As the work load was light, Maj. Carl S. Cross was allowed on board for his first ride as co-pilot. Accompanying the XB-70 were a McDonnell F-4 Phantom of the US Navy; a Northrop F-5 and a Northrop T-38 (both North American crewed); and an F-104 Starfighter flown by NASA pilot Joe Walker, who had flown the X-15.

The formation was controlled by a GE-engined Learjet, with no radio frequencies in common with the XB-70. Radio messages had to be relayed via Edwards AFB. GE got a number of good photos by 9.30 am. and ended the photo session about 9.35. Apparently against the dictates of common sense, the NASA F-104 was edging up close to the XB-70, finally moving in below the right wingtip.

The 30° crank-down of the Valkyrie’s wingtips generated a strong vortex, and this whipped the F-104 upside-down and across the top of the larger aircraft’s wings. It took away almost all of the XB-70’s tail fins. The F-104 fell back in a ball of fire; the Learjet resumed picture-taking.

For some seconds the Valkyrie flew steadily, then began a slow roll, turning into a violent yawing. Descending flat-on to the airflow, a large part of the left wing broke away. Soon after, White ejected in his crew capsule. The XB-70 stopped oscillating and fell, slowly rotating, hitting the ground almost flat about four miles north of Barstow. Why Maj. Cross, with 8,528 flying hours, failed to eject is unknown, and he died in the crash.

Perhaps unfairly, GE suffered a great deal of ill-will for the incident, although they had done nothing wrong, and for some time it was impossible to arrange PR exercises and aerial photography.

The surviving XB-70, 62-001, continued to amass research data, largely for NASA. Its last flight was on 4th February, 1969, to the USAF Museum, Wright-Patterson, where it remains, alongside the Convair B-36, the largest aircraft on display.

#26

Oh, please - don’t be so harsh toward that poor PR fellow, my dear Mr. Pdf 27. Perhaps he only forwarded that what those specialists have told him.

Anyway, lack of the computational power definitely is a very bad excuse for a sheer technical negligence. :wink:

And the whole thing about the F 117 is as clear as a bell, my dear Mr. Pdf 27. You see, that dearly beloved coordinated usage of the F 117 is achievable only in a so called limited conflict, which absolutely necessitates:

  • uncontested and uninterrupted first-strike capability;

  • existence of a strictly static air defense system, confined to the defense of key points;

  • continuous aerial superiority over the battle area;

  • total absence of, or continuously effective suppressibility of all counter-strikes on domestic military bases;

  • permanent provision of reconnaissance and combat-protective support by supplementary elements of the air, land and space forces;

  • unbroken functionality of all logistical systems.

Without fulfillment of all these prerequisites, my dear Mr. Pdf 27, the F 117 – unlike some other airplanes - is completely unable to perform satisfactorily in a real warfare, especially at the Western Theater of Operations.

Perhaps all this previously mentioned is a little bit too abstract for an average tactician, unequipped with the officially issued “JANUS” military training simulation software. But never mind that – we shall perform some old-fashioned, but strictly rationally based tactical exercises. :wink:

Take a good look at this map:

GDR – Air bases of the 16th Air Army of the Western Group of the USSR forces

Remember that Soviet units of the 1st, 2nd, 8th and 20th Guards Air Army, 3rd Assault Air Army, as well as numerous East German, Czechoslovakian, and Polish air forces are not presented on this map, and that French forces are not included in your own multilateral effectives.

Factual positions of the Warsaw Pact anti-aircraft units are unknown, enemy forces are using an integrated Air Defense System, and first nuclear strike is not an option.

Please calculate and present to us your viable coordinated plan for a strategic annihilation of the Warsaw Pact forces, which incorporates sufficiently effective and feasible attack of the F 117 airplanes. The 37th Tactical Fighter Wing is completely under your personal command.

Lt. Gen. A. F. Tarassenko, Generalleutnant von Reichelmann and I will continue to lead defensive forces of the Warsaw Pact in this tiny tactical exercise called Alte Kameraden ’88. So please – show us that integrated F 117 magic. :slight_smile:

In the meantime, here is that already promised old, but incredibly fresh blueprint for a stealthy birdie with those Valkyrie-type folding wing tips:

Stealth Penetrator – technical proposal made by Dr. Richard Hallion, 1981

Nice-looking birdie, indeed. :cool:

As always, honorable ladies and gentlemen, we remain at your service. :wink: