That’s how my Great Uncle died - he was in Bomber Command, as a Navigator on a bomber which flew into a hill in training…
Oh , damn,sorry was it in day or night training?
I’m not sure - funny that being as he died about 40 years before I was born! All I know is that they never saw the hill they hit, so it will have been either at night or in bad weather.
Regarding the forum topic, how many crew’d a b-17? I watched Ken Burn’s ‘The War’ and a pilot said there were 10 people that flew in a b-17 over europe. He said at one point 110 people were lost in bomb raid. I think it was the Black Tuesday thing which was about bombing a v1 base or a german industry plant? Is the man correct? 10 is awefully alot of people i would expect like 6 poeple.
Ten is right! 1 tail gunner (“tail-end charlie”), 2 waist gunners, 1 ball turret gunner, 1 radio operator, 1 bombardier, 1 top turret gunner/technician, 1 navigator, 1 co-pilot, 1 pilot.
i was aware only of the 1 tail gunner , 2 waist gunners, 1 ball turret gunner, 1 top turret gunner/technician, 1 co-pilot, 1 pilot. I assumed that some of them would also do 2 jobs simultaneously like navigating and bombarding.
Some crew were dual-trained, in addition to basic first aid skills. This applies to both US and Brit crews.
Statistically, oddly enough, the safest crew position in a B17 was the ball turret. Casualty risk was given as 10%, citing this figure from a post-war USAF study. This from “History of Aviation” Hodder and Stoughton, 1976.
As to training accidents, the toll of about one in 6 deaths seems correct, from reading the RAF History, which I did several years ago.
As to relatives killed.
A cousin of mine, was dorsal turret gunner in a Lockheed Hudson.
They took off from Gibraltar in morning fog, and the pilot was late making the 15 degree right turn after the wheels left the runway. The Hudson flew straight into the rock. The remains of the crew were identified by their teeth.
A genuine event.
Accidents on operations were rare, but happened, as did accidents in training.
My math teacher was ex RAF Navigator, Lancasters.
He was off duty one afternoon as Lancs took off to form up for a raid.
Two took off, and turned opposite ways, one to the right, the other to the left.
The fireball was 500 yards wide, at about 1500 feet above ground: 15 dead men before you could even pray for them. One of the Lancs had had a reporter onboard, to write up that night’s raid.
And one other casualty-causing factor needs mentioning regarding Lancasters.
As phenomenally good as the aircraft was, it killed a lot of crews, and the Air Ministry let it continue.
The fuselage escape door at the rear right was too small to permit an unassisted exit of a crewmember bailing out. A larger door had been designed, protoyped, built, but the Air Ministry refused to slow the production lines for long enough to have the new door fitted.
It was subsequently fitted to Lincolns and Shackletons, post war. This data from a newpaper article, circa 1980, still in my possession.
Regards, Uyraell.