The Best Light Machine Gun.

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#261

Um, my misguided friend, lean close so you can hear this…

ASSULT RIFLES ARE CARBINES. Great Scots! A dude argues about assult rifles and does not even know what one is. :shock:

Post us the link that states it, an official one. You can’t? Oh. I didn’t think you could. But it’s NOT effective. Nothing coming from the barrel of a carbine (oooh! That word you hate so!) is effective at 600m. You’d be lucky to break the skin with an AR at 600m. You’d be better off throwing rocks at someone at 10m that shooting an AR at them at 600m. :lol:[/quote]

I would at this point in a classroom draw you a nice Venn diagram to point out that, although a carbine can be an assault rifle, this does not mean that all assault rifles are carbines. Quite simple really. A carbine does not have to be an assault rifle - traditionally mounted troops have carried shorter versions of the standard weapon (hence the Italian carabinieri). This predates the assault rifle by a long way. An assault rifle can be a carbine (typically a modified version for modern cavalry) for example the SA80A2 (standard British assault rifle) is different to the carbine variant of the same developed for tank crews etc.

As I don’t have a blackboard handy for the very simple Venn diagram, you will have to believe me on this.

That is the reason why I say that no-one mentioned carbines - because carbines are NOT the same as assault rifles

#262

I think ive made this statement before…dont the above posts kinda go with fire arms classifications and not best LMG. :?: :?

#263

Like ALe said, but I appreciate if you father spawned you after Chosin then you are in the region of 55, making you too old for USMC, and beyond redemption in terms of earning anything akin to pride in your fathers bosom! Therefore its probably safer if you do just do your ironing drink milky cocoa and talk about wars whilst playing COD than actually doing it yourself.

You have left it too late to do anything about your military delusions Im so sorry for you!

#264

Yes, however a certain someone decides where to put the erroneous statement, we must respond to it where it lies surely?

#265

Yup. The effective range is 500m. Not 600m. :lol:

#266

And for those that didnt read me saying it three times in the previous post that is indivdual fire, and still 200 yards higher than your previous guesstimate at 250 yards - SEC-fucking-TION FIRE!

(admittedly you were talking about pistol rounds and Im talking about 5.56 I apologise maybe COD doesnt differentiate!
or you dont hunt at over 250 yards! (if the rabbit shot back youd shoot back as soon as you could!)
YOUR DAD WAS AN INFANTRYMAN ASK HIM ABOUT SECTION FIRE.

#267

Whisky Tango Foxtrot? If all assault rifles are carbines, why does the US Army describe the M-16 as an assault rifle but only it’s shorter cousin the M-4 as a carbine?[/quote]

Carbine: a short barelled rifle.

The M4 Carbine is an assult syle military rifle. DOAH!

BTW, the M16 has been replaced. One of the reasons for the development of it’s replacement is that the barrel length does not lend itself well to close range combat. Hence, the M4 Carbine and the XM8… are carbines. Traditionally, assult rifles are short-barreled (carbines). Ooops!

#268

Yup. The effective range is 500m. Not 600m. Laughing

Yes, the effective range of the individual weapon, firing on its own, is 500m. I’m sure you can appreciate therefore, how 8 weapons firing at the same target at 600m will also be effective too?

And I thought you said that no assualt rifle was effective beyond 400m? :evil:

BTW, the M16 has been replaced. One of the reasons for the development of it’s replacement is that the barrel length does not lend itself well to close range combat. Hence, the M4 Carbine and the XM8… are carbines. Traditionally, assult rifles are short-barreled (carbines). Ooops!

So the M16 wasn’t an assualt rifle then? :?

#269

500m is the EFFECTIVE range, but you want us to think it is effective at 600m? You know something the manufacturer does not? :shock:

UN troops too. But so what’s your point? Still trying to somehow undermine the UN troops and USMC that were there for some reason? Why do you lash out at them? What immature, indescent, disrespectful thing are you trying to do? And how does that make your contention that the M1 Carbine did not kill plenty of soldiers at Chosin true? It does not.

I’m too old. They don’t enlist men in their 40’s.

#270

One of the reasons for the development of it’s replacement is that the barrel length does not lend itself well to close range combat. Hence, the M4 Carbine and the XM8… are carbines.

IRONINGMAN they redesigned an assault rifle with a shorter barrel and made it into a carbine as it says above,
he he look who said that, you did, you goon!
they made an assault rifle into a carbine! thats at odds with your earlier statement that all assault rifles are carbines isnt it!

#271

All current assult rifles of recent design are carbines. Every one. Assult rifles do not have sniper rifle length barrels. Sorry.

#272

Sorry to hear you are in your 40’s and have already squandered all your chances to be a hero rather than a WALT - Enjoy COD

At 500 metres the bullet is capable of pushing it
s way through clothing flesh muscle sinew fat cartilage bone and idiots callede IRONINGMAN

At 501 Metres it falls out of the air and sits there redundant and innocuous.

paraphrased from you!

??? EH

Chosin, you won, you, won, youwon, you won, wonwon you did, didwin youdodid win youwon. You were the superior force it takes nothing away from the soldiers to say

YOU WON,

Surviving is important, body counts arent, more of you walked off the battlefield than of them, a victory, won however you want to put it you won, if the weather and your better equipment logistical support embedded advantage, defensive advantage, helped you win, you still won.

Why do you want to deprive the Loggies of their victory or the commanders, of theirs, why must it all be put down to this pistol

Chosin aside, the MI Carbine is not an assault rifle its a pistol with a long barrel and a butt stock!

I only want you to agree on section fire, cos that is going to be the funniest bit of humble pie to watch you swallow the rest of it you can throw under the table or feed to the bog or something.

#273

All current assult rifles of recent design are carbines. Every one. Assult rifles do not have sniper rifle length barrels. Sorry.[/quote]

hey where has this recent word come from?
and more exactly how recent are we talking?

and who the fuck dragged sniper rifles into this!

more to the point who said assault rifles had sniper rifle length barrels?
the ones with barrels that long are called sniper rifles thats a differnet kettle of fish! Sniper rifles in fact!

#274

All current assult rifles of recent design are carbines. Every one. Assult rifles do not have sniper rifle length barrels. Sorry.[/quote]

How do you explain the new variant of the SA80 assault rifle with a shorter barrel that is a “CARBINE VARIANT” I did not say that assault rifles have sniper rifle length barrels. They would then be “sniper rifles”. How easy can I make this for you?

In general, I would say (and this is working from memory) that any assault rifle with a barrel length shorter than about 18 inches is a carbine. Anything longer is (unless otherwise designated) a standard assault rifle.

On section fire, go to page three of this document: Section fire

Edited to add quote from document:

The tactical advantage of the weapon and its capability of firing single rounds or bursts, is in producing:-
a. Quick, accurate fire at short range opportunity targets.
b. A high rate of accurate controlled fire at longer ranges.
c. Effective section fire power at ranges up to 600 metres

Italics my own.

#275

500m is the EFFECTIVE range, but you want us to think it is effective at 600m? You know something the manufacturer does not? Shocked

Yes, the effective range for the weapon firing as an individual is 500m; and as a section is 600m. Those statistics relate to the individual weapon, not 8 men firing that weapon at once. My point was, that if the limit of 1 weapon is 500m, can you not see that the limit of 8 firing simultaneously could be 100m more, even if one were being conservative?

UN troops too. But so what’s your point? Still trying to somehow undermine the UN troops and USMC that were there for some reason? Why do you lash out at them? What immature, indescent, disrespectful thing are you trying to do? And how does that make your contention that the M1 Carbine did not kill plenty of soldiers at Chosin true? It does not.

I’m not trying to be immature, indecent or disrespectful, I am merely trying to clear up your misconception that that was indeed what I was doing when I introduced the subject of the weather originally. If you read what I actually wrote you would have noted that I said:

I am in no way intending to take a dig at the USMC, they are a fine body of men and I have no beef with them,

can I make it any bloody clearer than that? I would suggest that you withdraw this:

Still trying to somehow undermine the UN troops and USMC that were there for some reason? Why do you lash out at them? What immature, indescent, disrespectful thing are you trying to do?

if you are any kind of man at all. I have gone to every length to make it clear that that is not what I am saying. I would suggest that you are being immature and lashing out.

I’m too old. They don’t enlist men in their 40’s.

What about the National Guard? Just a suggestion like!

#276

IRONINGMAN has not posted anything since his carbine - assault rifle
sniper rifle comment, I think hes gone to bed, but really hope he hasnt cos this is such a whole to dig yourself out of!

#277

:lol: :lol:

You must be 13 yrs old.

YOU ARE A LYING LITTLE SACK OF SHIT BOY.
That is not a quote from me, I did not say that, and a search of this site will prove it. Go f**k yourself kiddo. lol

#278

You must be 13 yrs old.
[/quote]

that was obvious :lol:

#279

If it is only effective at 500 metres what happens at 501 metres then?
I mean you say its ineffective, so what happens at 501 metres?
was my presumption of your version of events so far off track?

I may be 13, still got you on the ropes havent I?
Wait are 13yr olds the ones that play computer games before they join the military?
Is Simo Hayha, the worlds best Sniper, a 13 year old for understanding what a person looks like over Iron sights?

#280

Ironman,
please dig out your dictionary and look up the word “paraphrased”.
It does NOT mean quoted.
In this instance it refers to an extrapolation of your statement that 500 yards is the EFFECTIVE range, and therefore the weapon is totally INeffective beyond that range.
NATO military doctrine : definition of effective range :
“(NATO) The maximum distance at which a weapon may be expected to be accurate and achieve the desired result.” (my italics.)
If this equates to 500 yards, accurately aimed fire, it certainly in no way implies that you would want to stand around at 600 yards while 8 men laid down fire in your direction.
Section fire is about keeping the enemies head down, not sniping individuals.