The Junkers Ju-87 Stuka topic.

World War II German Military
#81

And here we have another photo-rarity in our thread, honorable ladies and gentlemen. This time we have our dearly beloved Ju 87 pictured while she was in Yugoslav service. This particular airplane has a pretty intriguing background, so it will be epigrammatically presented here.

Ju 87 B-2, Rajlovac, May 1945

Although outdated by early 1944, many Ju 87’s were still in use as highly solid platforms for night ground attack sorties, even in 1945. Primary purpose of these machines was destruction of enemy supply lines and concentrations, as well as suppression of adversary guerilla forces in the background regions. Amongst these units one particular unit – Nachtschlachtgruppe 10– was used for specific anti-Partisan purposes on the Balkan Peninsula, being situated on the Butmir airfield next to Zagreb. On February 12, 1945 one Ju 87 B-2 Stuka (WNr.0406) from the NSGr. 10 received an order for a repositioning mission with immediate effect. Airplane took off from Butmir and took a direct course toward even today renowned air-base Zalužani near Banja Luka, but the pilot mistook the course that he should have taken, and landed at the freshly cleaned runway of the auxiliary airport at Sanski Most, which was already occupied by the Partisan forces, to be exact by Air Squadron of the 5th Corps of NOVJ.

This unit - previously formed on September 21, 1944 - consisted of 8 aircrafts: a couple of captured Morane-Saulnier MS 406 fighters, as well as of two-engine Caproni Ca 311 bombers, and a pair of Bücker Jungmann training and Benes-Mraz Be 51 sport planes. Together with this freshly captured and highly appreciated Ju 87 Stuka they all participated in a general attack of the Partisan forces on the Banja Luka Fortress, where surrounded belligerent forces were putting up a ferocious resistance. The Germans later on pushed the Partisans out of Banja Luka, forcing the unit to move to other available airfields in western and eastern Bosnia. The actions of this unit, however, provided a huge boost to the morale of the ground forces and proved the values of Partisan air units in the war.

On the other hand, absolutely undisputable and highly attention-grabbing fact is the verity that the very last airborne operation of the Yugoslav forces against the German army was completed by this airplane on May 28, 1945, when this machine, escorted by a pair of Bf 109 Gs, bombed various German and collaborationist troops who had refused to surrender after the officially acknowledged armistice.

#82

Ju-87D loading up a SC1000 bomb, pretty nice “pickle”.

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#83

Hi Librarian,
what is the plane in the background ? Looks like an older version of Do-17, with strange engine cowlings (Gnome-Rhone ?). If it is,
never thought it would be still in service in 1945… My understanding was they were phased-out before the war.

#84

Briefing next to Ju-87G , note the big tubes of the BK 3,7 guns…

#85

Hi Librarian,
what is the plane in the background ? Looks like an older version of Do-17, with strange engine cowlings (Gnome-Rhone ?). If it is,
never thought it would be still in service in 1945… My understanding was they were phased-out before the war.

Hawkeyes, my dear Mr. Windrider! Excellent observation, indeed! :smiley:

As a matter of fact, presented airplane was the Do17K – an export variant of the Do17 built for the Royal Yugoslavian Air Force. As you know, the Do17K was the closest relative of the Do17E and M, but it mainly differed in several major features and was generally more capable combat platform. Do17Ka-1 and Ka-2 were derivatives of the Do17E/F and featured fabric-covered lower wing surfaces, as well as a shorter distance between the engines. Do17Kb, however, possessed all-metal wing-covering, and some longer engine mountings.

Germany delivered 20 examples of the Do17Ka-1, 14 Do17Ka-2 and 2 Do17Kb. These original German examples were complemented with home-produced models, built in accordance with the official license acquired by the state-owned airplane factory in Kraljevo.

First production string of planes had the original French Gnome-Rhône 14K Mistral Major engines, while the second and third production block had domestic, license produced G&R14K engines. All DFA (Drzavna Fabrika Aviona-State Aircraft Factory) built Do17Kb’s have had a built-in-windshield FN machine guns. Offensive armament of the first and the third block consisted of 8 internally carried bombs of the so called “Stankovic type” (106 kg), and two external racks for two 200 kg bombs. Similar bomb equipment were installed on all German-built planes.

The second DFA production-block have had two UD 32-type bomb-containers, with a total of 64 pieces of those 10 kg bombs within it. These machines were later converted to carry one additional container, with a total of 96 small bombs. Nevertheless, there are certain informations that even few samples with twelve 90 kg bombs 90 kg were built as well.

Yugoslavia entered the WW2 on April 6. 1941, when Axis powers attacked the country. Do17K’s led an immense attack against German units in Bulgaria (airfields in the vicinity of Sofia), as well as a number of group-attacks against advancing German armored colomns.

After that, Do17Ks have found new operators after the fall of Yugoslavia - RAF in Africa used two samples. Hungary has acquired one example and actively used it as a fast reconnaissance airplane until 1944. Bulgarians captured six damaged examples near Skoplje, while the new Croatian state overtook eleven healthy pieces. Sounds completely incredible, but no less then nine planes survived the WW2!

Overall, 73 Yugoslav Do17K’s were manufactured - 37 within the Dornier factory in Friedrichshafen-Manzell, and 36 inYugoslavia. Within the DFA plant 33 examples were finished and officially commissioned, while 3 machines were posteriously completed in the “Ikarus” factory in Belgrade and delivered to Croatian Air Force in 1943. Certain examples were captured, and pressed in active service within YAF until the early fifties, being finally decommissioned and – alas! – scrapped in 1951-1952.

And now, back to our main guest star in this thread – back to the good old Ju 87 Stuka! I hope that you will like this one as well. So here it is:

Ju 87 B of the 7/StG 77, closely examined by members of the Royal Hungarian Air Force, Eastern front, 1941.

Enjoy! :wink:

#86

Hi Librarian,
many thanks for this elaborate answer. Your posts are always interesting and informative, one of the main reason I keep coming to this forum.

#87

No doubt the Stuka was one of the feared weapons in the Germany arsenal , but i think after 1942 it lost it’s huge role in the war simply because the Allies had more air power month after month and the Luftwaffe had more and more little to offer expecially in 1943 -1944 , so without much air cover from the fighters it was easy to shut down the stuka .

#88

Thank you very much for your exceptionally kind words, my dear Mr. Windrider. :slight_smile:

You know, I do have a constant feeling that many items have been dropped from the catalogue of the world’s collection. We have added more and more to the human collection of facts. So inventive and active have we been that we have forgotten a lot of what we did in the past. That’s why our task here, my dear Mr. Windrider, is not to worship what already exists, but to find those missing parts of our past, capable to take us on our next step into the world of firm knowledge – surely, the most fascinating world of all.

Thank you for giving me the strength to go on.

And now, back to our main theme: here is another half-forgotten picture of our main airborne star in this thread:

Ju 87 D – Eastern Front, 1943.

Enjoy! :wink:

#89

A interesting squematic that show how the divebombing mechanism of the Ju-88 works.

#90


I’ve found out the story behind the photo.
The Stuka in question was from the 1st Gruppen, Dive Bomber Geschwader 77, pictured moments before it crashed at West Broyle near Chichester on the 18th August 1940, both crew members Unterofficer August Dann and Unterofficer Erich Kohl were killed.
This Stuka was one of 10 Stukas lost by this Gruppen on this date, in an attack on Thorney Island, a further 6 were damaged, one beyond repair.
The RAF Squadrons responsible for their destruction were No 43 and No 601.

Source ‘The Hardest Day, 18th August 1940’ by Alfred Price

#91

Nice color pic of loading a 37mm gun of the G-version incl. film camera (I guess) above the barrel:

DZWvE_483,2F.jpg

#92

And finally, honorable ladies and gentlemen, after a long time, we finally are able to present some new materials - more precisely, certain snapshots connected with early models of the good old Ju 87Stuka. :slight_smile:

As you know, Junkers Ju-87A-1 was the very first Stuka variant that entered serial production. Hungarian officials were also excited by its performance achieved in Spain, therefore in February of 1940 Hungarian Ministry of Defence (Honvédelmi Minisztérium) ordered 28 Ju 87 K-2s (export variant of the B-1 model), as well as the technical documentation needed for license-based production of the airplane at the Weiss Manfred factory in Budapest.

Unfortunately, German Air Force was unable to provide those airplanes, because this type was already in short supply due to improperly undertaken preparations for the mass production. Shipments for the Luftwaffe have had absolute priority in those times, but factual reasons for the documentation transfer refusal are still unclear. Nevertheless, the Royal Hungarian Air Force actually was the first foreign military which received a very small number of Ju 87A-1s and Bs in 1940 for training purposes - more precisely, a solitary example of the Ju 87 A, and 2 Ju 87 Bs.

Ju 87 K-4 RHUAF, unknown location – 1942.

Early “trousers” on the fixed undercarriage – a distinctive detail of the Ju 87A version are clearly visible, as well as the small and rectangular radiator and two angled-out aerial masts.

Another shipment arrived only in February of 1942, when 4 Ju 87 K-4s (export variant of the Ju 87 A-1) reached their destination at Pápa Air Base, being absolutely unique machines in the whole Hungarian inventory due to the fact that they were practically freshly reassembled aircrafts, made out of old, conked out German Ju 87 A planes! Hungary purchased additional 10 old Ju 87 Bs for training purposes, but they appeared only in 1943.

Ju 87 K-4s of the RHUAF on their flight toward their target-practicing area – the Ural-line (Hajagospuszta – Várpalota), escorted by the WM 21 Sólyom – July, 1942

The first major delivery finally arrived in 1943, consisting of 30 D-1/D-3s, as well as 14 Ju 87 D-5s in 1944. They served well, mainly on the Eastern front, but they always were heavily outnumbered and fiercely fighter-chased birds.

Ju 87 D-5, RHUAF – Eastern Front,1944

Generally, it can be said that besides Italy, Hungary received the greatest number of Ju 87 dive bombers, but they were too few in number to make a difference in the outcome of the war.

In the meantime, as always – all the best!

#93

During WW2, Maj. Thomas McGuire, of the 475th FG, wrote a book on combat tacticsl on how to fight the Japanese. In the manual he said the Japanese Aichi D3A1, AKA the Val dive bomber, was a real good plane that seemed to be made to shoot down in large numbers.

Well the Ju-87, Stuka, is in that category. Both were excelent dive bombers but neither the Val nor Stuka could survive in an hostile environment. Either the enemy had no fighters to defend or the dive bombers had to have escort. Neither one could do well at defending themselves.

They worked well as long as it was safe for them with no hostile fighters present.

#94

Well, in fact the SBD or even the Helldiver coulnt survive in a hostile enviroment either despite the fact being better armored than the Val. Probably the only divebomber with full air-to-air combat capabilities was the A-36 invader.

#95

Thanks Librarian! I´m happy that you´re sharing your knowledge of the equipment of the smaller countries of the period. It´s hard to come by.

#96

True, but the F4U was pretty fair dive bomber and it could survive quite well. That really is what should have happened. According to the book, “Corsair” By Barrett Tillman (page 80), the SDB was only about 10 percent more efficent at divebombing than the F4U.

And the A-36 Apache was used as dive bomber.

And that really is the direction they should have taken. No escort would have been needed if the dive bombers were the fighters.

#97

if your dive bombers are also your fighters you tend to have those that will loose their bombs when enemy fighters are around or be sitting ducks.

In most air battles the first thing the fighter bombers do when bounced is drop their load to be more manouverable.

This will be classed as an effective halt to the bombing as they will have no ordanance to drop until they go and re-arm/re-fuel, you will also have tired pilots doing a return trip which can get spoiled the same way.

Fighter cover was supposed to prevent the enemy fighters getting close to the bombers.

Either way they still have to face the gamut of AAA on the way to and at the target.

#98

leccy,

If all your fighers are dive bombers and no enemy fighters show up, that allows alot more bombers. And if enemy fighters do show up, only some of the fighter/bombers have to drop their bombs in order to protect the other fighter/bombers.

We did that many times with P-47s in the ETO. They were ‘self’ escorting.

#99

I wont be brave enough to put a heavy fighter like the corsair in a 85º degrees, stuka type dive, without dive brakes I could end smashed in the ground, not good for the health you know.:rolleyes:

#100

Actually, in the book, “The War Journal of Major Damon ‘Rocky’ Gause”, who escaped from Corridor, and sailed with another American 3100 miles to Australia, he became a Major in the USAAF,and few P-47s with the 365th FG. They modified the flaps and wings to make the plane into a dive bomber. While unfortuantly Gause augered in from 30,000 feet testing the modified plane, it did become operational and used quite well in the ETO.

Now I do note even our SDB did not dive at 85 degrees, but I really don’t think you need to go quite that steep to be an effective dive bomber.

Deaf