Russians themselves say that…
Ambassador of Russia stated how Finland was just odd place. He had forgotten his gloves in a bench in the park, and as he went there the next day, gloves were right there on the bench.
(Russians actually say we are honest to the gullible… доверчивый)
Is not you the man who wrote that during the Finnish civil war the White terror have no marcy for the Red guard and their supporters?
SO why do yo think that the Soviets , backing to the Eastern Karelia will more kind toward YOUR KArelians?
…no…
Karelians were just Finns. THere was no hatred or anything like that. Those few Red Guards which managed to escape were murdered during Stalins purges.
SO in the end the the push them out was more human decision then to let the new Civil war be started.
…no. Karelians fled because otherwise massacre and annihilation would have taken place.
-And Soviets did try to kill the fleeing Karelians, bombed the columns and fighters strafed. What bravery…
During Winter War and Continuous War there were Finns against Soviets, not Reds against Whites.
It was a Allied decision ( not the Soviets) to split the GErmany.
And hardly they lost as much as the USSR ( 25 mln of lives).
At least the Germany has been saved as a Nation. Great NAtion that today is among EU.
I doubt the many states and nation could be saved in a case if Nazic won the war.
remember about it.
The many peoples and ethnical groups could be annihilated LITERALLY.
Soviets just held on to the Eastern part until there was no alternative but to split.
Nazis and Communist were just as bad. Soviets committed ethnic clensings very eagerly.
This is not true that you got nothing.
The Finland got a great investition due to the right foreigh policy.
The Finish goods have been welcomed in the both West and Eastern markets , and west even compete with Soviets for influence at Finland via the economical yieldings.
Finlans benefited a lot of this situation.
The whole half of Soviet printing industry have been printed on the finnish paper.This is much better then so called "reconstruction " in GErmany.
This is true.
But also that our entire timber industry was left behind in Karelia, and that lost territories are still in Russian hands, even though most nations have gained their possessions back.
And we had to pay you. Imagine that Russian Federation would give back lands they stole and would pay 300 million in current dollar.
-Gains from the untold injustice of the war reparations were immence, though.
Valmet machinery company and most modern heavy metal industry was created in Finland and after 1952, these companies could start producing profit.
Oh so GErmany have been annihilated?
Third Reich was. And So was Germany until the unification.
But Yanks were in Allied sade and made a hell of job for our common Victory.
Their were no COMMUNIST , but they were our ALLY.
Like the Finland for the GErmany till the 1944.
Now you feel the difference.
You just admitted that you can’t ever call us Finns nazis, thank you.
And we still were no allies to Germany.
Good. SO we have a points for future agreements and good relations.
The only reson to join the NATO would be Russian Federation getting all bully again. And eve so, I don’t think that NATO helps. So yes, we agree on that.
Therefore i never USED a Stalinist figures.
The All figures that i used were from Wiki or from the Norway press ( the Egorka linked).Or from the Russian archives that as you might remember- enough well correspond to the finnsih ones ( as we saw it in a statistic of lost aircraft during the Winter war)
Stalinistic mindset… That Soviets were brave and righteous in their Great War and the Soviets fought with honour and bravery as every foe in front of them was annihilated.
THat Soviets mearly fought to defend their motherland and upheld justice and morale.
Archives opened only when SU fell. And I am glad that it did, and I am glad that we can compare numbers.
(just have to ask; what do you know about Raattee road?)
Hard to say what terror come first indeed.
Red. Without question. Old hatreds were wented to “vallas”-people.
They killed civilinas.
It does not justify the White terror though. Both were equally wrong.
SO hardly the White terror was an “equivalent” answer.
The Whites shared the terorr very well.
Beside there were a certain differences at a teror at all.
They were different and had different impact on the course of war.
Reds had prison camps where they held both captured White fighters and civilians.
Whites had prison camps which held Red fighters.
Reds were going to annihilate Helsinki, kill untold number of civilians as a revenge for White success in war.
SO if Reds killed the “class enemies” then the Whites murders had the ethnical orientation.
The WHite killed firstly the Russians.
Anyway the White terror exceed it in times.
Red Russians were considered brutal warriors and they were feared.
Not least because Red Russians were military-trained, former soldiers for the Tsar.
White Guards killed any Red Guards, ethnics had minimal impact, if any at all.
But it wasn’t legitime reason to capture the part of Russian terriroty in 1920-21, right?
Viena expeditions failed, remember? And no, it is not a legimite reason.
Now we see where the finish-german cooperation come from.
Actually you both two natural allies.
Born to be the allies:)
Even as you mention the germans with honor.
Kaisers Germany trained Jaegar to make its enemy weaker. It did not pay off, as that Germany fell.
Russians having to endure wars of independence in addition to huge war against Germany was the goal.
I still fail to see how Kaisers intrests of gaining allies in the North makes us ideal allies.
If you remember- they were mostly Finns.
The russians were no MORE the 10 000 among the 90 000 of the Red Guard.
and you killed your Kins very well.
Yes, and those scars have only now beginnig to fade.
Winter War united divided kinship better than anyhting else. But Red and White mentality was strong up to the 60’s.
Fortunatly in the past 40 years, such idiotic cut has all but vanished.
And why the Finland should be joined to the USSR?
To start the new civil war , again?
Don’t yo think the Stalin was an idiot who don’t remember the strong finnish resistense to the Reds in 1918-1919?
Lenin thought that Finland would join herself after Red victory. That is why he was one of the first to recognize our independence. But Russian Reds were unable to aid Red Finns and Whites won.
Stalin most likely could care less about the people. We would have faced extermination.
He had seen Finnish civil war, yet Finland was to be taken like any other neighbouring nation.
It failed through nial-fanatical resistance, but that did not stop him from trying again, and fail again.
Right, so “friend of my enemy” Finland describes a lot in SOviet external policy during the 1939-40.
How so?
Not to all of SOviets neighbourgs, this is wrong.
As i know the China have not received nothing simular:)
The only areas of former russian impare have been demanded. Like Western Ukraine , cuptured by Poland in 1920 due tho the failures of bolshevics policy and Bessarabia.
How many European nations did SU swallow?
And Soviet Russians then used Ukranians as cannon fodder.
And the Finland that got the Pechenega as a “military booty” in 1920.
Not military booty, because there was no military actions there. Same goes with Åland.
Why.
In this case the young nation show the good will toward neighbourd and undertstanding of thier points.
It is not good will to give into threats.
Finland, as a young nation wanted to show that it will not give up lands and will not negotiate her territoy. Puts her foot down and stands firm.
Soviets suggested not bad ex-change in sense. More then twice squares lands should be passed to Finland .
See, that is the thing we call `Stalins views´.
Those areas to be “given” to Soviets were of great importance. Strategic areas, locks of areas and habited places.
Soviets had NO right to claim those in the first place, and all who have given into those threats had been annexed.
Especially if Another Giant make to you the suggestion that you can’t refuse, right:)
He says - join with me in war against the hostile Giant or be oocuped?
So you have no choise, right?
This is your point?
“By occupied” part goes awray. Should the Germans invaded, we’d have defended. Just like against Soviets.
The offer Germans made seemed like a gift from heavens, get even against Soviets and get stolen lands back.
