The Real Churchill

Italy wasn’t so much his preferred ‘soft belly’ (I’m not sure he ever said ‘soft underbelly’, not least because there is a redundancy in that expression which conflicts with his usually precise English) into Europe as the necessary target for available forces to pacify Stalin’s pressure for an invasion before the Western Allies were ready for the big one in Normandy.

His world view was certainly imperial, but he was a child of the Victorian age when the Empire was at its all-powerful and wealthy peak. It was as hard for him to come to grips with a new world as it is for Americans to recognise America’s waning power after the end of the American century.

His inspirational leadership, which inspired both his nation and the American supporters he needed to support his and Britain’s dogged determination against Germany, was the greatest gift he gave to his nation and the free world.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say it excused some of his egregious military blunders such as Greece and Singapore in WWII when he went against competent military advice. I’d say only that those blunders are outweighed by the positives which came from his inspirational leadership outside military strategy.

As for Gallipoli, it turned out to be a stuff-up which was a good rehearsal for even bigger Churchillian stuff-ups in Greece and Malaya / Singapore in WWII but, of the three, Gallipoli had the best prospects of success for Churchill’s forces. But for the excellent leadership, tactics and quick response of the Turkish forces under Kemal (later Kemal Ataturk), it might well have succeeded.

As for Churchill’s sly remark about ‘history being kind’ to him, since he was going to write it,
there is some suspicion that his reported ‘great escape’ in South Africa was ah, a ‘good story’
that he was not going to let spoil by application of the facts, which was that a quietly paid ransom
/release deal was done…

A credit Churchill is due, however, is his Admiralty-based backing of the development of tanks,
in partial response to the debacle in Gallipoli where the naval division was decimated…

Interesting too, R.S.* - just how German general L. von Sanders crucial part in organising the defence of Gallipoli is nowadays ‘airbrushed’ out - in favour of the Turkish hero Ataturk…

That is standard practice though, plan for any eventuality, I believe there was still a plan for the US to attack the UK post WW2 in amongst all the various contingency planning.

Plans being made does not (contrary to the Press) mean there is any wish or chance of them being carried out, they are just plans to try ideas and scenarios, many can be adapted.

Selected facts though, look at his whole life and deeds not just a limited cross section.

Well, Churchill did relish his opportunity to be in charge,
& his ego dictated that he would ‘know best’, & act on this…even when he didn’t, & was warned about it…

This wasn’t routine contingency planning but plans on Churchill’s instructions to combat what he, correctly, saw as the Soviet menace in post-war Europe.

On a quick consultation with Mr Google, this is the best internet coverage I can find, not that I’m favour of citing newspaper articles as sound versions of history. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1209041/Operation-unthinkable-How-Churchill-wanted-recruit-defeated-Nazi-troops-drive-Russia-Eastern-Europe.html

Churchill’s “Unique foresight”, that is too funny…
More likely, since his hate number one Hitler/Nazism was out of the way…
he could not but default to hate #2 Stalin/Communism…

& very probably his ego would not allow the self-reflection of his existential angst at the failure of his war aims…
…notwithstanding the parlous state the U.K. was in, so a bit more war-mongering was just the ticket, even if relegated by realpolitik to ‘the realms of fantasy’, as Cpt Mainwaring would say…

Max Hastings in the Daily Wail? Umm… let’s just say it is probably more sensationalist than genuine history…

Are you seriously suggesting that a newspaper would prefer sensationalism to accuracy? :shock:

That’s as bad as saying that newspapers would do heartless and illegal things to get their stories.

Next thing you’lll be saying that Rupert’s apologies for News Limited doing heartless and illegal things was empty.

Admittedly, it has been reported in other papers that it was an empty apology on the basis of Rupert’s internal comments to News Limited staff, but I’m sure that that is just inaccurate sensationalism by a newspaper with lower ethical standards the News Limited stable.

:wink: :smiley:

Oh, there isn’t any comparison. The standard of Journalism at News International is much higher than at the Mail.

That has to be the ultimate condemnation of the Mail.

Not really. I think their worst offence is putting bikini photos of 16 year olds in the sidebar of shame using the code phrases “all grown up” or “big girl now” to say that it’s now legal to letch over them. I personally think they’re far more misogynist than the Sun putting topless women on Page 3.

They really do outdo themselves sometimes though…

I felt uncomfortable reading that article. Amounts to paedophilia.

But that’s alright when it’s done by a major corporation, as I found when trying to get US police in the home state of a well known social media site to investigate clear offences of publishing child porn. Interest level = zero. Action = zero.

No doubt the same police force mounts major raids to catch sickos with a few thousand child porn images on their computers, rather than the few million or few billion child porn images on the publicly accessible servers of publicly listed corporations which don’t give a stuff about what they publish.

What a self-obsessed nobody.

As for her plastic surgery, she spent it at the wrong end if she needs a hat that big to hide her ****.

I don’t think pedophilia is the right word, but it certainly is creepy. Those girls aren’t even legal in most of the United States (as consenting adults) and putting a watch listing out there of teen girls is pretty awful and as bad as our media can be I can’t imagine seeing that in the local paper…

Especially in this age of sexual trafficking, occurring even in developed European countries and North America…

I wonder which posh, heavily guarded hotel or compound she’ll be reporting from when not whoring at the bar?

Whaaa?

Tantamount to a thread hi-jack! L.O.L.

Funny indeed what weird tangents certain minds are so ready to race down…

Actually Max Hastings has made some contributions that ought not be written off too glibly…

Funnier still that the same can apply to the author of ‘Churchill’s War’…

& be honest guys, if you behold a nubile teenage stunner sporting her natural attributes bikini-clad on the beach,
it’d be ah, churlish… not to discretely appreciate the fine aesthetic qualities on show…

That does not mean of course, that I suggest acting out an offensive perve routine, obviously…

Churchills was possibly more of a realistic request to plan (there were plans for the US to attack the UK and Canada in the 1920’s and 30’s), than contingency ones for just about any eventuality (I spent a few years working with muppets doing some of this contingency planning, so many plans and off the wall ideas).

What I meant was though that whether Churchill actually wanted to fight the Soviets in 1945 or not those plans would have been made at the time anyway.

Going to the Wars isn’t bad, but do you need to remember he’s a newspaperman rather than a historian. That colours his work somewhat.