The role of the USSR in World War II

There were also Spanish volunteers fighting along the Nazis. That doesn’t mean "Russia " was fighting “Spain”. Duh!
Another example: Brasil joined the allies and was “fighting” Nazi germany…

And Russia was not fighting Italy , the Land and full nation of Italy on all theatres of italian conflicts of the world.
Italy sent a couple of 1000 italian wannabeheroes to fight in russia, and on paper Italy joined the declaration of war…but that’s it.

Which is exactly my/our point: The CCCP could NOT afford redirecting men/material to Japan front, which is exactly why USA and UK should be credited for it by the Russians (today’s russian historians).

Which I also said: but with this nuance difference: Zjoekov won BECAUSE he had better tanks (t26/BT5 were better than the jap tankettes) if it were to be inf to inf (with Arty and few airplanes) then Zjoekov may have failed in the 38-39.
At the end of the war in 1945, the japanese there were even less of a match: less men, no planes, no tanks (not even obsolete japanese tanks).

Yes. As in; in shock realising that the japanese army needed better design, bigger guns etc. on their tanks. Which they did , the planning, sketching, trials, tests…only what failed by that time, 1943-ish, was the lack of industrial materials to fabricate them in large numbers.

Why do you refer to Russia?

Leccy referred to the Soviets, who happened to be rather more than Russia in WWII.

I don’t see your point in using “fighting” as if Brazil did nothing against Germany.

Brazil’s expeditionary force did very well in Italy.

Of course Russia wasn’t fighting Italy, or any other nation.

It was the Soviet Union, of which Russia was only a part.

Stalin wasn’t a Russian, but a Georgian. He couldn’t have led Russia, but he was able to lead the much wider USSR.

The USSR had roughly 750,000 troops facing about 600,000 Japanese troops in the early years of the Pacific War. This was critical in depriving Japan of larger troop numbers to support its southern thrust (ignoring Japan’s limited ability to ship troops and supplies for significantly larger numbers of troops), when the Allies were at their weakest. The other Allies (British Commonwealth, US, Netherlands) should credit the Soviets with holding those Japanese forces against the Soviets, along with the logistical burden on Japan rather than, as you assert, it should be the other way around.

You seem to make a practice of disputing the results of battles and campaigns by various forces because the victor was superior or the loser was inferior in various forms.

Are there some other criteria for victory or loss, which military experts over the millennia have missed but to which you alone are privy?

To borrow from your own comments: Duh!

Care to specify the campaigns where Japanese bigger tanks with bigger guns would undoubtedly have changed the result, from the commencement to the end of the Pacific War? Malaya / Singapore? Papua New Guinea? Guadalcanal? Island thrusts by Allies against entrenched Japanese troops whose doctrine did not involve mobile armour?

A few little meandering thoughts

My thoughts on the USSR WW2 alone,

  1. NO defeat of the Japanese Empire via the UK and US.
  2. NO defeat of the axis army in North Africa via the UK and US.
  3. NO Lend lease either from the UK or US.
  4. NO Battle for Britain. The axis aircraft loses were enormous.
  5. NO Domination of the seas, all of them.
  6. NO Destruction of axis factories in a sustained bombing campaign.
  7. NO Defeat of Italy via UK and US.
  8. NO Second front via US and UK, Normandy Invasion.

I do think the Russia gets too much credit after getting its *** kicked. How far into Russia did German Forces get. Also if you don’t take prisoners, or they die very suddenly under your supervision how does that count towards the war tally.

I’m Sorry in the end Stalin and Hitler were one and the same.

Actually if Italy would not have needed Germany’s help in Greece Germany would have attacked the USSR earlier and the fact that Germany had about 50 divisions in France because they had not defeated Britian. If Britian had fallen and Hitler had started the attack on the USSR weeks earlier like he wanted the USSR might have fallen to Germany in 1941. The Germans could have put 50 more divisions in the invasion force and they would not have hit the Russian severe winter as early. May have been enough that Russia may have fallen since Germany would have had a few more weeks of good weather and more divisions. Russia was also lucky to have such a large country and so much land to fall back on.

I also dont see WWII as just a ground war. Maybe it was for the USSR and they were lucky it was since they had no navy and a very bad air force at the begining of the war when Germany attacked. The did later build up a fair size air force but had no navy to speak off. I would have liked to have seen the USSR pull off D-day with its navy or lack of navy. Heck the US was landing on three differnt islands in the Pacific while also landing at Normandy with the British and Canadians.

The US gave the USSR nearly 100 ships near the end of the war so the USSR could attack the Japanese on one of the smaller Japanese islands and the Japanese put a beating on the Russian troops that landed. And the USSR did not attack the Japanese in Manchuria until the war in Europe was over for 3 months to send troops there. The USA was fighting on many fronts at the same time but the USSR only fought on one front at a time during the war.

And the number of troops involved ?? Well the USSR peaked at about 13 million and the USA peaked at 12.3 million. The USA had 7.6 million troops oversea’s by the wars end fighting on all fronts on the ground , in the air and on the ocean’s. They were not all in one front as the Russian troops were as the US troops were all over the world. Plus they had to get them all over the world and keep them supplied all over the world so they could fight as did many British and their empire troops did also. The USA also sent over 400,000 trucks and Jeeps to the USSR as the USA put the Russian army on wheels !

Thats just a few facts that say the USSR did not win the war on it own nor could it have won the war all by itself. It took all the allies to win the war from many countries. And it did not matter if a country sent 20,000 troops or 3 million troops they stiil fought and died and helped win the war. Ron

The late winter thaw in 1941 did more to delay the Axis (Germans, Romanians, Slovakia, Italians, Finnish, Hungarians + all the rest - former PoW’s, volunteers from various nations and conscripts from the occupied countries) than Germany assisting the Italians in Greece.

The Axis forces arrayed to invade the Soviet Union were not all utilised immediately, whole divisions being kept as reserve (larger numbers were reserved than were employed in Greece).

Germany could not provide its divisions in 1939 with all the equipment they needed - in 1941 with war booty and production from the occupied countries added to its own domestic production it could not provide all that was required to equip its own units - Contrast that with the allies that produced materiel for each other and had a surplus that they could provide to non aligned or neutral countries to keep them out of the war.

By the time the Axis reached Moscow their manpower shortage was very acute, the majority of the divisions were exhausted from the long march, short of manpower and equipment, supplies were in short supply due to the distances involved as much as the weather, vehicles were worn out. The Axis had literally been bled to death.

Lots of excuses can be made but seems it is not popular to say that it was the Soviets fighting desperately that halted the Axis.

60 Million lives lost in WW2 .

SU role was invasion and take over of eastern Europe, whilst germany took over western Europe… Until hitler invaded SU.

Not by the USSR as thats about how many the world lost in WW II. Ron

That is so true. Actually Britian and I think France were considering sending troops to help Finland fight the Russians who attacked the Finns after helping Hitler carve up Poland. Ron

Britain and France actually embarked winter trained units to go to Norway (if Norway allowed) and proceed to Finland - Finland seeked an end to the fighting first though so the British and French force was disbanded. They had an ulterior role though which was to have troops on the ground to forestall a German attempt to invade Norway.

In the end Britain and France did send troops to occupy Norway and they landed around the same time as the Germans - the specially trained and equipped units though (on the British side at least) were no longer available so it was a hurried force of what ever was available with what equipment could be spared that was sent.

Ron, where in my post about 60 Million lives lost did I mention the USSR?

On that post nowhere as since the post is “The role of the USSR” I thought you may have meant the USSR lost 60 million. I guess since the USSR lost so many that sometimes many blow the number up even more. I dont get here as much as I would like so I did not realize how much you do know about the war as I now realize you know way to much to know that you did not mean just the USSR. But as I said I just thought you may have meant that but I jumped to the wrong conclusion and for that I appoligize as I meant no disrespect by it. Ron

No problem Ron.

After re-reading my post I found it was very vague and I could easily see how you came to your conclusion. It’s on me.

Lets get back on topic on “The role USSR in World War 2”.

You brought up some interesting points along with Leccy.