US aid to the Soviet Union

Even if a lot of it was more moral than anything…

The U.S. was always the hope, the trump card. Even when not directly involved, Nazi Germany could defeat either the U.K. or the U.S.S.R., but as long as the U.S. hovered on the precipitous with our neutrality, and lead-lease aid, there was always hope. That’s one of the main reasons why Britain kept fighting in the dark days of 1940, it’s one of the reasons why the Soviets never even considered suing for peace despite the fact they suffered staggering losses in 1941. Lend lease was more than material aid, it was hope for victory from industry the Germans could not bomb…

Why? Because I took the time to look at Soviet production figures from the 1930s to the end of the war. That’s why. The Soviet Union’s biggest period of growth occured during the depression that had crippled the Western powers. This is indisputable.

Nick, a great deal of Soviet production was moved beyond the Urals, which was all but out of reach to German bombers.

Lancer, if you want to be taken seriously in historical discussions it is a VERY bad idea to cite places like whatreallyhappened.com for references. VERY bad.

Soviet production figures could only have risen in the 30’s from a base of almost zero. There wasnt all to much industry around in Russia after ww1.

I just dont see how the Soviets would have done the same if they had to build their own Trucks and Railroad engines for example. Production would have had to shift from other things such as Tanks and Aircraft. 1/2 a million trucks is a lot of help and lets not forget all the Halftracks that accompanied the armour, they were all US built too.

I’m not denigrading the Soviet Union, I’m just being practical. You dont just pull 1/2 million trucks out of the air.

You are correct about the starting point of Soviet production- it WAS almost 0. However, it managed to rise to compete and in some cases surpass the Western powers within about 10-13 years- enough to give the Soviet Union the edge it needed to fight and win the war.

Trucks WERE a big contribution. The aid that really helped the Soviets the most were a lot of logistical or otherwise not-so-military items like telephone cable, trucks, etc.

BTW: About SPAM; I believe the author of Blood Red Snow remarked how the Soviets he saw didn’t like SPAM and would give it to German prisoners in the camp where he was interned.

Canned compressed meat hasn’t come very far even today. I live in the Czech Republic and a few weeks ago I ate “canned pork”. I put the quotes there because I am not sure it was actually the MEAT of a pig but rather a pig’s vomit. It had a picture of a happy pig on the can; and what pig would be happy if he were to be slaughtered?

No, that pig is happy because he just vomitted and his stomach feels better. The vomit was then canned and sold.

We used to have SPAM fritters, Mmmmmmmmm.

I ate a can of Spam about a year ago, and I had never had it before. But as I live in a rural area that can get a lot of snow (the snow capital of the US last year actually), I usually keep about a week’s worth of nonperishable food in the winter. So I bought a couple cans of Spam. I never did need it during the winter, so I decided to make fried Spam sandwiches one day. When I opened it, I smelt the unmistakable odour of catfood…:frowning: The meat is very salty and not all that pleasant, but if I were starving, I’m sure it would taste like black-Angus, well, maybe not quite…

In any case Jasa, I was referring to a History Channel program I saw on the great T-34. Some old Red Army vets were asked about one of the tanks only drawbacks, it’s primitive crew positions. The veteran said something to the effect that from growing up on a collective farm, it was like a “hotel suite,” and that “we had fresh bread, American cans of meat (Spam I presume), and vodka rations, what more did we need?”

My greetings , gentlemens.
I am glad that some of you presented the interesting information. Thanks for the Dani , Firefly and of couse Lancer.
Certainly lend-lease played enormous role at the Eastern front. It is difficult to overestimate its value.I want you all to certify that now no one and Russia rejects the value of a large quantity of war materials, products , weapon and industrial equipment which it entered in THE USSR during WW2.

But I want to note you some wrong stereotypes appeared during the Cold War.
Recently I read book of Secretary of State of administration Roosevelt - Edward Stettinius “Lend-Lease: Weapon For Victory” (New York: Macmillan Co.; 1944 , Russian source http://militera.lib.ru/memo/usa/stettinius ). This man was the chief of “Administration for the Observance of lend-lease Act”.
He better than others knew about lend Lees. Also his book by the fact that it was interesting written prior to the beginning of the Cold War therefore it contains most objective data.
I learned much interesting from this book.For example to what contrivances came running Roosevelt in order to overcome resistance “isolationists”.

The first military goods on Lend Lees arrived to Murmansk only at the end 1941 when the Red Army it stopped Germans near Moscow and Leningrad. During this period of lend Lees had more psychological value. This is what writes Stettinius

"Rolle the deliveries of the armaments of the Red Army for lend-lease during is combat with Germany in 1941 difficult to estimate correctly. If we speak about the shortage in Russia of concrete military materials and technology as trucks or telephones, then lend-lease played here important role. But as a whole the volume of the military materials set by us is not too great

Since 1942 quantities of deliveries on lend to Lees gradually increase from the beginning and reaches its apogee in 1943 - 1944 i.e. after the Red Army it finally proved its force for America.
I think to absolutely erroneously assert that lend Lees the “Save THE USSR from the defeat”. But unconditionally, Lend Lees played enormous role in the strategic offensive operations of the Red Army 1943-45 yr.
Whom is actual lend Lees Saved from the complete defeat - this Great Britain.
Stettinius write

The British Commonwealth (of about 63%) and the Soviet Union (of about 22%) were the main recipients of this aid, although toward the end of the war more than forty countries obtained aid on the lend-lease…

i.e. Britain obtained three times of more the aid than OF THE USSR. Although the Red Army bore on itself incomparably large role in the fight with the Germans (before Normandy) than the Armed Forces of the Kingdom. He wrote also

…by the “main” contribution to the defense OF THE USA ", made England, Soviet Union, China and other countries, appeared, of course, their war with the countries of axis, and this most important, that our country obtained in response to the aid on the lend-lease. In the report to the congress on 25 January, 1943, I emphasized: "this aid cannot be measured in the numbers. There does not exist the standard estimations, with the aid of which, for example, it would be possible to compare thousands of killed Russian soldiers and thousands of destroyers. All, who perished in the fields of battles in England, China, Russia, in Africa and Asia, fell, protecting its native land. But these peoples warred and war with our general enemy. Their victims save the lives of Americans ".

Thus helping THE USSR and England Americans they protected, first of all, its interests
Achieving a program lend-lease America thought, first of all, about its own safety and… profit "

… The program of lend-lease gave a noticeable impetus to the development of the production of armaments in America. Besides the indirect impact on the expansion of American defense industry of hundreds of millions of dollars according to the program of lend-lease even to Pearl Harbor were inserted in the new plants, the factories, shipyards and other objects, which played big enough role in the development of our productive strengths these investments, only to 900 million dollars, they were inserted in economy 34 of 48 our states, and their sums varied from 142 million dollars to the military plants in Michigan to 14 000 to the production of dry milk in North Dakota. These means dispatch in reconstruction of civil enterprises… into the servicemen… New plants in full or in part financed also due to the program of lend-lease, and the production of armaments for our army and our allies made it possible with the interest to redeem expenditures for their building. To the lend-lees means were built the docks, piers, floating cranes in the American ports… Because of they was succeeded in creating the system of military storages and commodity stations from the coast to the coast…

To the realization of all of the program of lend-lees were begun to operate only 13% of economic possibilities USA (for THE USSR it was reached about 1/5 from 13%); therefore erroneously to speak that America “strongly strained itself”.
Lend Lees was sufficiently advantageous transaction for USA, but at the same time he was very advantageous to Britain and THE USSR because deliveries were on credit and not for the payment immediately. As a result of American war aid, Britain was deprived of all its naval bases on the the Pacific (that it decided beforehand the sunset of the Britain empire) and USSR (Russia), until now, it must about 600 million dollars for lend lees.
The role of lend lees in WW2 best described Stalin at the Yalta conference. He said that, in his opinion… lend-lease - this is the remarkable invention, without which the victory would be different. It added that in the preceded wars some states rendered aid to their allies, but it only insult of those, who obtained subsidies, and were created financial difficulties. Lend-lease did not give birth to a similar evil. And he again emphasized that, in his opinion, the lend-lease made an extraordinary contribution to the victory

I believe thay you’re right “SPAM” was not popular.
Basically Allied troops were getting two kinds of canned meat - pork SPAM and Corned Beef.
Most of Corned Beef was of Argentinian production to British specs.
I tried corned beef of todays production to exact the same specs like WWI and WWII.
It was not that bad eaten with bread, however I cannot imagine eating it every day 365 days a year. This was major complain of soldiers of many armies - monotony.
Corned beef or SPAM in hot summer or in tropical conditions is absolutely disgusting. Fat melts and the whole thing taste horrible.

Regarding canned products supplied to USSR - I heard from vets which were in Polish Army under soviet command - (they had the same supplies as Red Army) - very popular was “svinaya tuschonka”. It was basically pork belly or pork fat - in Russian - “salo” which was prepared in the same way as ham - lightly smoked and cooked.
It was produced in USA to soviet supplied specs and recipes.

Being in the army in 70’s I had an opportunity to eat soviet produced “svinaya tuschonka”, being guests of soviet AAA unit- it was supplied in 3.8kg rectangular tins.
We get 1 tin for 10 people.
I don’t like fatty food but this was excellent. Tasted very nice!
And with Russian black bread - the best. Everyone liked it.

Cheers,

Lancer44

Hi Jasa,

I know that “whatreallyhappened.com” is bad…
But I did not pointed to any opinions or conclusions they spread.
List of US supplied products is genuine.
The fact that they using it as the proof that Cold War was a hoax is another matter and is just plain stupid.

I could not find such list anywhere else but it is a must on this Forum to quote your sources - I do not identify myself with “whatreallyhappened” at all.

Cheers,

Lancer44

I am currently in the middle of Analysis of Deep Attack Operations: Bagration-Belarussia, a study by the Combat Studies Institute at Ft. Leavenworth, KS. There is a line in reference to lend-lease which states:

“They(the Western Allies) commenced lend-lease aid, although this would not amount to sufficient quantities to affect Soviet operations until late 1943 and 1944.”

Interesting info, thanks. Spam still sells well in parts of the U.S., especially the South I believe.