"Vengeance at Dachau" (U.S. Soldiers nearly massacred concentration camp guards)

World War II American Military
#41

Not in so many words, but he was clear on his intention to exterminate them.
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/statements.htm

I’m not sure about that.

My father witnessed a mob attack on a Jewish shop in Melbourne, Australia, during the war.

The mob were ‘ordinary’ or ‘normal’ Australians. You won’t find any reference to such events in our mainstream histories.

But the same vicious anti-semitism survives here http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/the-holocaust-began-because-words-of-hate-went-unchallenged-20081210-6vtt.html
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22798945-5000117,00.html

Perhaps, but in 1946 you’d have been struggling to find a German who had even heard of the Nazis, let alone been a member. People often reconstruct the past to conform with their present.

Possibly for the same reason that by the middle of the war it was well known in Australia that our forces implemented a “no prisoners” policy and practice towards the Japanese, but if we’d lost the war and been brought to account by Japan I’d bet that there wouldn’t be an Aussie who knew a thing about it.

Everybody has concerns about Sicilians, especially when they leave Sicily :wink: :smiley: , but the Italian tolerance of the Jews actually exasperated the Nazis no end. Coincidentally, it’s on the forum calendar today: http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-12-12&e=11&c=1

#42

…strange but you never hear about anyone hating Australians!
Thanks for that info RS:army:

#43

That’s what you think!

The worst you have to put up with is Yanks still being pissed off because a very long time ago Canadians burnt Washington and gave the Yanks their White House. For which, given the huge symbolic significance of the White House, you’d think Yanks would be suitably grateful to Canadians. :wink: :smiley:

Down here, we’re just unpopular with practically every nation to our north-ish and, apart from New Zealand which doesn’t matter all that much, there ain’t nothing in any other direction. Although this is, in part, a tribute to the arrogant and foolish policies followed by our arrogant and foolish neo-con government of the last thousand years or so, or it seemed to last than long anyway. :wink: :frowning:

#44

and the other half of my family is English and Austraian go figure,

My Great Uncle on Moms side was OSS her father Bomb Squad he was a combat enginer in WWI (meaning he dug trenches), My Grandfather an Officer in The BRO, his brother an enlisted man in the texas 36th DIV (wounded Monte Casion DOW 1958), and my Grandfathers Brother inlaw was a CRAF pilot (Crashed in the Channel tipping V-1’s DOW 1956) , and my Aussie relatives I havent researched them yet,

Racisim or any ism in my book is just plain wrong and boils down to intolerance something we all have to deal with every day.

My Grandfather talked about how during the depression you couldnt get a job being “another guinee on the block” so he his 2 orphand brothers changed their name from Cangialosi to Prahl a Dutch/German name the Maiden name of their mother as to at least be able to work. In 1942 at the age of 31 My Grandfather voulenteered for the army at Fort Jay NY and his war began.

No Nation is spotless or innocent but as I said earlier I’d rather be the lesser of two evils than the Greater evil.

Grandad said to me before he died that they fought that war so we wouldnt have to fight another war ever again and bade me, made me promice never to join the Army, ( I did anyway, but that is another story)
It wasnt untill I was an adult and experienced Horror up close and personal That I understood why he did that.

I wish we could all live in peace and get along but we humans have a great ability of doind one thing really well and that is fighting one another and destroying everything around us. I think it would be nice if we could learn to be creative and get along before we finally destroy this planet and ourselves, and for what?

SUV’s gasoline mp3 players and fasion, religion?

God Help us all… whoever or whatever he or it is…

Speaking of Germans and jew hating in 2006 I met a Fallsjarmjager who was captured at 10 am on the 6th of June 1944 in St.Merie Du Mont.

He was constantly making jew jokes to see how I would react needless after awhile we had a private conversation about his experience as a prisoner…

" The Day I was capured I had been wounded and the paratroopers of the 82nd took me prisoner I recived immideate treatment for my wounds, it wasnt long after that that they transported me to the beach and I was sent by Hospital ship to england and recived further treatment, then they put us on another ship to Boston, and then I was transported to Chicago where I was put in a Hospital and treated by JEWISH nurses and doctors at first I was scared I thought they were going to poison me or kill me but they didnt they were kind and caring and operated on my wounds one Nurse who was Jewish even would bring me coffe and cigarettes.

After I was healed up enough they shipped me to a POW camp in Texas the Commandant was a Jewish Col. I thought we were in for it even though he was jewish he treated us like soldiers we were fed well and put to work those of us who were enlisted men the officers didnt have to work, it was then that I knew we had been lied to that everything we had been taught for 12 years was a lie I felt ashamed."

Unamed Forward Observer of 9th Fallsjarmjager St. Merie Du Mont June 9th 2006.
(I chose to leave out his name)

This soldier even though he ribbed me and made fun of jews fully admitted to me that he knew what was going on back home and said that they all supported it because they were taught to belive that the jews or any Undermenchen was a threat to their society and existance…

Me unlike many have gone to the source for my opinion(s) I have interviewed countless Veterans German American British, I have interviewed former Buchenwald inmates even.

Most Veterans wont tell you much and hide thier war exept for those who were there or people like me who are tring to fill in the blanks in a specific group…but I am lucky I have a special connection with them and have spent thousands of Hours researching a very specific group so it helped me with my quest…

I do apoloigise if I get intolerant of false ideas or statements it comes from seeing what that mentality can do…

#45

The BRITISH burned Washington (and Buffalo, NY)! :mad: The Canadians love to propagate the “Canadian Militia Myth,” but it was the Royal Marines and British Army marauding our coast…

And really, burning down D.C. was among the nicer things they did… :wink: Raping and pillaging the countryside was among the nastier - not that American militia hacks invading Canada conducted themselves much better, though…

#46

This is what Major General Otto Remer had to say about Dachau:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=E8T7yOccViU

#47

I know that, but I didn’t want facts to get in the way of a clever comment. :smiley:

#48

Bump!

#49

This is most detailed research of that massacre i’ve ever seen.
Well actualy the figure of executed were much more then 17. The only near the part of wall seen probably 20-30 corpses.
But how the last sentence about thousands of soviet pows have been executed there in 1941-42 correlate with the fact it wasn’t a death camp?

#50

The NAtionalily has a DAMN deal to cruelty and crimes in that unfair war.
Some peoples should be exterminated ONLY BECOUSE of thier nationality, buddy.

JUDAISM is a Religion Not a RACE!

What does mean such a wide deep sentence?

#51

Except I do not know where they are getting their numbers from…

And the timeline is also flawed. It claims that US troops were “gunning down” surrendered German SS at 11:30am when resistance did not cease until Noon…I question their scholorship as they’re just pulling numbers out of the air. If 560 guards were killed, then how were there ever any prisoners left?

#52

Nick , this site is not revisionist, so we migh to trust at least to some of testimonies.
http://www.humanitas-international.org/archive/dachau-liberation/lee-john.htm

In the waning days of World War II, Army Pfc. John Lee and a few other GIs assembled about 60 German soldiers, lined them up against a wall and shot them down in cold blood as the Germans stood surrendering with their hands in the air.

SO at least 60 were killed ONLY by the THAT guys.
Obviously not 17 as it were pointed in American report prevously.
BTW i didn’t know ONLY tiny part of inmates were Jews( less then 2500 from 32 000) total.
And endeed the most of killed were the Soviet citizens.
SO i take my previous words about possible Jewish personal vendetta BACK, sorry to all.

#53

The best account of the days actions is the second last post in this thread.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=43919

It is very revealing as to the actions of one of the main claimants to there being ‘hundreds’ of dead SS men.

The linked ‘impartial’ site says:
In September 1986, more than 40 years after the massacre at Dachau, retired U.S. Army Colonel Howard Buechner published the first hardcover edition of his long-suppressed book, “The Hour of the Avenger,” detailing the grisly events of April 29, 1945.

In my linked thread you can read:

I mention all this to prove that Buechner’s book, so dear to Holocaust deniers and Revisionists like Ernst Zundel, contains multiples of errors and caveats over the alleged massacre of 560 SS troops. Here’s some specific examples from Hour of the Avenger:

a detailed demolition of Buechner is in the link.

It might be interesting to add that Buechner has another book in circulation.

[i] “SECRETS OF THE HOLY LANCE”

“One of the most incredible books on lost treasure, secret societies, ancient relics and WWII ever written. Taking up where The Spear of Destiny by Trevor Ravenscroft leaves off, this book relates that the Holy Lance was secretly taken to a base in Antarctica, while a replica was returned to the Vienna Museum. A book packed with strange information on Nazi bases in Antarctica, Himmler and the SS, U-boats carrying important Nazis to South America and Hitler’s secret treasure.”[/i]

Read the thread and see if it changes your perceptions

#54

Chevan, the site might not be revisionist, but it is based on bad scholarship and sensationalist hyperbole…

See the very good response by Mkenny…

And I’ve never said only 17 SS soldiers died that day. At least 40 to 50 were executed by American soldiers alone that day. Seventeen were killed by the ad hoc “firing squad” assembled in front of the wall. Something that is supported by the photos taken after. Other’s were killed in individual summary executions…

#55

Do you mean that the suggestion , it was Death camp where have been executed the thousands of peoples is ONLY sensationalist hyperbole and bad scholarship :D?

See the very good response by Mkenny…

And I’ve never said only 17 SS soldiers died that day. At least 40 to 50 were executed by American soldiers alone that day.

Well i do agree that up to 80-100 SS-mans probably might have been realy executed that day.
Not 560 that likely is just propogandic overstatement.

Seventeen were killed by the ad hoc “firing squad” assembled in front of the wall.

hardly there were ONLY 17 dead in that photo.
25-30 i suppose.

#56

I was referring to the 560 number…:wink:

Well i do agree that up to 80-100 SS-mans probably might have been realy executed that day.
Not 560 that likely is just propogandic overstatement.

That’s probably correct. Although, I think the number was inflated out of ignorance and the attempt to generate shock-value for a book rather than propaganda value. However, it seems to have become a bit of a cause for far-rightists outraged over the death of their dear comrades…

’

hardly there were ONLY 17 dead in that photo.
25-30 i suppose.

I’m not sure which photo you mean, but the most famous one has most of the SS-men laying on the ground even though most of them are still alive and unhurt…it was taken seconds after the shooting stopped I think…

#57

As far as I’m aware the Waffen SS were sent to guard camps until the Allies arrived, simply because the camp guards had fled.
It is Hugely Important to distinguish between the KZ guards and the Waffen SS: a distinction which to this day frequently fails to be made.

It is of note: Waffen SS in rear areas when on leave would often execute a KZ trooper if they caught him. This, because the Waffen SS regarded the KZ Troops as effectively Draft dodgers. I have heard account of such, from the now deceased son of a now deceased Waffen SS Officer.

Perhaps understandably, the American troops made the error of assuming the Waffen SS present at the camp were it’s original guards, which they manifestly were not.

A KZ Troop Uniform differs in several details from a Waffen SS Uniform: in the heat of the moment such differences would most likely have been overlooked.

Regards, Uyraell.

#58

i would also like to know where those photos came from

#59

Funny how people cry war crimes agains soldiers killing soldiers in the heat of the moment, reflect on the fact that from august 1944 account after account of SS troops killing POWs were abundant, Payback is a bitch you reap what you sew, The troops involved knew who they were killing it’s cruel and vengefull but in my opinion fair as the SS were far from Boy Scouts, and once again put yourself in the shoes of a 18 year old US soldier who is scared nervous and afraid for his own life who says some of the SS didnt try to make a run for it? in that case its fair game to shoot, Use Malmedy as an example the german claim that there was an excape attempt and this is why they were killed.

The Photos were taken probably by a combat photgrapher or a soldier who had liberated a camera as personal cameras were suposedly forbiddon. after examining the photos you will notice an signal corps code painted on the print this indicates an Signal Corps photo and there was a statment in one of the interviews to support this.

#60

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt_Prahl
I think Chevan is harboring some anti semetic intentions on this tread who cares what Nationality or religion somone is soldier’s do horrible things to each other in times of war and extreme stress.

The NAtionalily has a DAMN deal to cruelty and crimes in that unfair war.
Some peoples should be exterminated ONLY BECOUSE of thier nationality, buddy.

Quote:
JUDAISM is a Religion Not a RACE!

What does mean such a wide deep sentence?

It means that you cannot define people racially by religion also NO ONE deserves to die because of their nationality or for any reason at all! it's a sick hatefull go nowhere mentality pull your head out of your ass its 2009!