War Between the States

More trivia, assuming it’s fair to call this disaster trivia.

SS Sultana, a Mississippi River paddlewheeler , went down with more than 1,700 souls, most of them Union POWs returning home after the Civil War. The loss of life was greater than the Titanic. Details here http://www.historynet.com/sultana-a-tragic-postscript-to-the-civil-war.htm

Today, April 12, is the 150th anniversary of Confederate Batteries firing on Ft. Sumter, in Charleston Harbor. Thus began the War of Northern Aggression. The Confederate Government had continued its request of the Union to abandon the fortress located in South Carolina. Lincoln ordered the fortress resupplied as a way of drawing Southern forces into firing the first shot in clearing their coast of possible aggressive forces.

Well, to say that it was “Northern Aggression” is a stretch. That’s not to say that Pres. Lincoln didn’t want a fight. But in fact the Federal gov’t informed their CSA counterparts by telegraph that Fort Sumter would be resupplied, and that’s when the Confederacy chose to fire on the fort–doing Lincoln and the Union cause its greatest favor!

Ha-ha-ha! Whew, that was a good one!:lol::mrgreen:

[COLOR=“darkred”]Civil War-a war between two factions to control the same nation. This was not the case between the two sections. The War of Northern Aggression or the War for Southern Independence seems a more accurate description to me. If a person prefers “Civil War”, it’s his or her choice. If a person wishes to be more accurate, there is a better choice. Cheers :)COLOR]

This conversation reminds me of an old Bullwinkle cartoon where they’re reenacting the “The Civil War” in the form of some North vs. South themed contest with uniforms, and a gentleman in a Confederate uniform keeps correcting the narrator after he mentions “civil war” with, “you mean the War Between the States.” In the contest, the South wins this time. After which the old Confederate says, “okay, you can call it the Civil War now.” :slight_smile:

Good Show! I like that, Nickdfresh!

Somehow I don’t think that two of my ancestors who joined the Union army and died in the Civil War, joined for “The War of Northern Aggression”. I’m in no way trying to argue, just saying…

I am sure you’re right. Lincoln did a good job of selling the war to “Save the Union”. Cheers,:slight_smile:

Yep, that he did. I’m sure that would have been the reason for joining up.

I really don’t want to turn this into the second fighting of the American Civil War thread. But we can go on and on with reframing and semantics regarding the War and who started it. The fact is that it was the C.S.A. that initiated the shooting war, whether the dastardly cunning Pres. Lincoln cleverly goaded the Confederates into it or not. And as much as one can point out Northern “aggression,” we can also mention that there was much in the way of aggressive behaviors by the Confederates who actually tried to force loyalist, Unionist counties in the South to secede as well. And then there’s the HUGE question of slavery, and the fact that the keystone of Southern “independence” was in essence articulated as a means to keep slavery indefinite and the manifestation of the notion of the fantasy shangri-la (enjoyed by a very small percentage of the white upper classes) of the Old South’s outdated, agrarian system based on not only slavery, but was also effectively feudalism. A system that in the face of modern industrialization was regressive and didn’t stand a chance, and carried on in the face of the realization that slavery was a national embarrassment…

This discussion has been fun. I’ll be back for First Manassas.:D(Rebel Yell)

Okay, nickdfresh, I plan to keep it light, and discuss battles from here on, as I indicated above. I do think the different views can be shared, without insulting anyone. I have grown up in Texas, and my first inclination was that the Union was right, even though my great-grandfather fought in and survived the war under “Stonewall” Jackson. The more I have read, since school, and having taught U.S. history in public school, the more my view changed to the Southern view of the war. Briefly, that’s who I am, and that’s my view. I trust that meets with the goals of this site. Cheers,:slight_smile:

This thread touches lightly on it, but just how deep are current feelings between the North and the South about the Civil War?

Obviously there will be extremes at both ends on both sides from ‘don’t care’ to ‘still seriously hostile’, but from a distance I get the impression that there are still (perhaps significant) elements in the South where there are strong feelings among what might be called average people, but that it’s not much of an issue for corresponding groups in the North.

If so, would you attribute those strong Southern feelings more to the Northern conduct during the War; or to the experiences of the Southern peoples during the post-war period of Northern control; or both; or something else?

I haven’t noticed too much. Every once in a while someone will call me a Yankee when telling them I was born up north. But no one has ever had any ill will towards me or my family.

Based on my family, (being a Yankee), we don’t pay much attention to the matter. No one really talks about it. And living in Texas since I was a child, the part of the family that’s down here never really lorded over anyone the fact that the Union won the war.

When I do talk about the Civil War with others, it’s a little bit of both. The Unions “total war” (Shermans march to the sea), and the treatment received after the Civil War. I read in years past that Lincoln wanted reconciliaton but after he was assassinated, it turned into occupation of the South.

Edit: with the current political situation in the USA, (check the “red” and “blue” states in the last few elections), I’m more of a southerner now than I would be a northerner.:mrgreen:

In my experience of travelling in the southern states, the war is still being fought in many southern minds - the grudge of the defeated, perhaps? Texas was also somewhat different to the cotton-belt/slave states. Some of my North-American/yankee cousins tell me that the Conderate flag is a symbol of treason and should be banned as being un-American. Not being American, it matters not, to me.

It depends on who you talk to I guess, most folks here in East Tennessee are pretty much reconciled with things, though there are some who are still fighting it, but they are a small minority. The Stars, and Bars are still seen here, some folks like flying it, some dont. But generally, Though not considered by most to be a National symbol, it is still a legitimate part of American history. The (admittedly few) people I have asked about it, do not see it as being a symbol of slavery, and feel that to be more of a Northern impression. (East Tn. was for the most part anti slavery) When I have seen it flown with the Stars, and Stripes, it is always well below the U.S. flag, I have also seen it flown alone, at the top of the pole. Then there are the usual truck stake pocket flags, license plate versions, and window decals.

I’m as Yankee as they come. But I have no interest in seeing the Stars and Bars banned nor censored as it is a legitimate cultural and historical artifact…

In 1965, I had a teaching assignment at a relatively new high school in Houston, Texas, my home town. The school is Robert E. Lee, and they were called the “Generals”. Confederate battleflags were waved at the football games, and it was normal and expected. The school integrated the next year, and the new black students bought and waved the small Confederate battleflags at the football games, without any problem. It was the way things were in Texas back then. I am sure there were some that chose to not participate, but I was surprised to see the large number of black students who did participate. At the time, Lee was all academic, college preparatory. Now it is mostly a technical high school, and I am not sure they even have a team of any kind. It is simply called Lee High School. The times, they are a’changing.

I once read of an anniversary of the battle of Gettysburg when vets from both sides were invited to honor the fallen.

The Union vets were surprised at the number of black Confederate vets who came, apparently they were better received by the Southern vets than the Northern ex-soldiers.

I’ve seen estimates that from 50,000 to 100,000 blacks served under arms for the South.

I’ve have also heard from current blacks in the South that it was their war too and that the disputed flag does not offend them.