You guys are free to do what you want, but I must say I highly recommend you use the PM function, or email, to exchange phone numbers in the future…
We’re British of course its all fuss and nonsense to us! We liberated Europe and the far east and spent until 2007 paying back the war loans to do what we want. hell thats what its all about… oh! what fun… to be naughty! I’m 110 you know … ;):lol:
My dad was with Force 385 and is still alive and kicking here in California. He just had his 84th birthday. He has told me many stories of his time in Ceylon, Hammenheil Camp and in the Kayaks off Burma and Malaya.
I had no idea there were others still around with much knowledge of these things.
I’m sure my dad would like to hear from anyone who is still out there that was there with him, his name like mine, is Desmond Mc Donald. He does not have email or know how to use a computer but I can and will share info for him.
He will be visiting home this August-September down in Bristol.
Look forward to hearing anything from anyone interested in sharing info or saying hello after all these years.
Des Mc Donald Jr.
desboon@earthlink.net
I think it might have been called Detachment, rather than Force, 385.
If you haven’t already found this, you or your dad might find it interesting, especially if you can track down the book mentioned as it should contain your dad’s name in the nominal roll: http://www.cfww2.com/forums/showthread.php?483-Royal-Marine-s-Detachment-385&p=2057
The poster Amrit on that forum may be the same Amrit http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/member.php?3362-Amrit who posts here. If so, he’s a nice bloke and I’m sure he wouldn’t mind a PM from you on either forum, although he hasn’t been posting here lately which is hardly surprising as he’s clocked up close to 2,000 posts on the other forum since September last year.
Hi
Wonderful news
There are two others I know of , the best and most willing to chat was in troop 3 of the 385 and he wrote my foreword to ‘The Cockleshell Canoes’ - George Davies ( he was in Troop 3 ) was your father DJ or J mC dONALD? AS THERE WERE TWO CHAPS IN THE SAME TROOP WITH THE SAME SURNAME!!! i AM QUITE LIKELY TO HAVE the most info on this subject and believe me there is another book there. Your father was in troop 2!!! if he is J Mc then he did operation CHAUNGTHA 2 AND THEY USED MK 1 ** CANOES , SEE BOOK.
HOPE HELPS
Q
Give my regards to your father… will PM you…
New to this Forum and found this thread by accident. Some interesting comments!
So as a starter just thought I would bring up a few points.
-
For Semi-Submersible Canoe read Motorised Submersible Canoe. Nor were they built to be paddled.
-
Regarding Ceylon and mention of the SBS, COPP’s and Detachment 385. Missing is the Sea Reconnaissance Unit.
-
Larger weapons that have been fired from a canoe. LMG, GPMG, 2" Mortar not to mention the 84mm Carl Gustav.
Regards
Rover
Regarding other lesser known ‘canoe’ operations of WWII, the Frankton Raid being the one that the majority know about.
But there was also Operation Jaywick. Taken by a ‘mother ship’ from Australia three crews after being dropped off attacked shipping in Singapore Harbour. On completion all rejoined the ‘mother ship’ and returned to Australia.
Looking through these threads I also noticed a picture/diagram of a canoe on which there seems to be some uncertainty as to what it is?
IMHO I would say it is the Klepper Mk 13 without the skin on. Broken down into three separate loads to enable it to be man-packed, total weight when dry 112lbs. The heaviest pack being 56lbs consisting mainly of the skin.
WWII British military canoes tended to be called Folboats, not Kleppers.
Rover
Hi
rover
Op Jaywick is mentioned in Cockleshell canoes book and a authoritative opinion is given based on my research. I think you should get this book as it will help you undersatnd matters.
the canoe in pic is not a klepper, period. you will have to read the info in the book to understand why people keep on referring (wrongly) to British military canoes being called folbots…
Its very likely that the Op.JAywick canoes used were mk1* or poss mk1**…
WWII British military canoes did NOT tend to be called Folboats. The military canoe during ww2 had a code name … ‘cockle’. they were not called folbots - thats a german term… much like klepper!
think about it
a klepper canoe being used by British special forces… please sir can we order spares from the suppliers – in germany!:lol::lol:
within the book the entire history is related… it will answer all your questions and help you to realise where you are going wrong… if you go to a source that is not researched well then you will have incorrect info…
Hello Quentin,
1
the canoe in pic is not a klepper
I refer to post No58 in which a canoe frame is shown.Which if not a Klepper Aerius is very similar in design.But it is on the Klepper web site!
2 Regarding the term Folbot.Well I did think about it.
I remembered that when the Commando units were formed in 1940, No8 Commando actually had a Troop called the Folbot Troop. A Troop
commanded by Roger Courtney using canoes.
The name Folbot Troop being taken from the company that made their particular canoe. Perhaps not a German company, if it was then it was
perhaps due to the owners name. One Jack Kissner who started the company in 1933 not in Germany but in London.
So perhaps it is understandable that WWII British Military canoes DID tend to be called Folbots.
you will have to read the info in the book to understand why people keep on referring (wrongly) to British military canoes being called folbots…
Perhaps I will pass on that.
3
The military canoe during ww2 had a code name … ‘cockle’
Bearing in mind that the term RMBPD was a cover name then again IMHO the name ‘cockle’ was born at this time for the self same reason.
4 Regarding the use of the name Klepper, I believe people are using this as a ‘cover all’ when refering to the military type canoe. In WWII
it was the Folbot that did the job!
It was not until the late 1959’s that the Klepper canoe started to make its appearance with the British Military. In the 1960’s the Mk13
Klepper Aerius being the model of choice with British Special Forces.
please sir can we order spares from the suppliers – in Germany
Now we do. Just shows how times have changed.
Starting to remember things I have not touched in a long time.
Rover
the cockle name and how it came about and its origiinal author is also covered in the book… kissner , folbots, everything inc SRU etc etc… my research stopped just after WW2 they were still using mk1** canoes in c. 1950’s these were the most sucessful and very like Kleppers but had air sausages on outside and could be removed…
Q
One thing I have noticed about this thread is your continual ‘pushing’ of your book.
No problem with that, but I do find your response to anyone who tends to question your information rather disrespectful.
My only interest in canoes is just as a means of getting from A to B. Some of the technical information I find interesting, in the same field as I would put ‘train spotting’.
Some mention about Detachment 385, there is a fair amount of information around, including reference again to canoes being called Folboat’s.
You mention the MkIII canoe, why the **? Nothing secret about it.
Yes they had external inflatable buoyancy bags not to mention the internal use of bags of ping pong balls at the bow and stern.
Also I find interesting that it was Sir Malcolm Campbell who had the idea of a small petrol engine to drive a small propeller on a long shaft.
The purpose being to enable a quick getaway although by the time it was fixed paddle power was proved to be more effective.
On disbandment of 385 it seems all the canoes were burnt.
Amazing what one can dig out of the memory.
Rover
Hi
If you had read my book even from a library you wouldnt need to ask the questions as they will be answered… and i wouldnt have to explain over and over again. From my point of view after having spent 7 years researching and coming up with a whole section of british military history that has not been covered before its very wearing to keep on having to explain when by simply reading the book it will answer all.
for instance your …‘You mention the MkIII canoe, why the **? Nothing secret about it’ shows that you have no idea about the subject matter and assume or are confused relying on other info which is mostly inaccurate.
i do not mention the Mk III i mention the mark 1 ** ( two star ) as a demarcation type as you would realise if you had taken the trouble to read my book. and as for secrecy yes there WAS something secret about it , not now but during the war years , as all were attributed the codename and all were classified as MOST SECRET… hence the cover of the book…
I have evidenced reports that record the canoes being brought back to the uk to stores also you would find it hard to burn the aluminium canoes…
Please just read the book and you will have no more questions. I find it a shame that you have the wrong information when all you need to do is read the book.
enjoy.
ps DONT read my next book … because i really couldnt cope with you deciding that the evidenced material within is not correct. It will be contrary to what most know…about the Cockleshell Heroes…
Q
Hello Quentin,
Well there you go again, read my book! I take it advertising is free on this Forum, because just about every post of yours is a continual marketing exercise.
You will find I have only asked two questions.
One referring to post No58, in which I was infact pointing out that you were wrong.
The second being in regard to the canoe classification MkIII as to MkI**.
The bulk of the remainder of my post being in response to some of your replies to members comments on aspects of canoe history both in and after WWII.
I disagree with some of the remarks you have made examples being, semi submersible, Folboat just to name two.
Your response has been to ignore or to become rather annoyed that anyone should dare question your ‘expertise’.
Regarding my comment:
On disbandment of 385 it seems all the canoes were burnt.
This information from one who was there.
Think about it.
If I did read your book you may find I would have more questions.
Apart from that I would point out that people come on forums such as this to learn via asking questions.
I look forward to your book on the Cockleshell Heroes, you will be pleased to know I have never even seen the original book.
But I can assure you I will be interested in the content, as you say it will be contrary to what most people know.
Looking forward to your future post.
Rover
For those interested in various canoes
