Thanks arhob for the support.
I/m agree this is a disgusting political show in the some of the Eastern European country toward the soviet mass graves - the mens who already can not to answer.
When I was in the U.S. Army, a long time ago, I was sent to Norway with the “ACE” mobile forces. (An early rapid deployment force to deal with any possible incursions by the Soviet military) Present were contingents from many countries large, and small. There were a small number of Bundeswehr troops, only a dozen or so,not allowed weapons, and they had to be attached to, and overseen by the U.S. forces in attendance. This was the order from the Norwegian Gov’t. and that they were not allowed out of the camps, or near Norwegian soldiers, or people. the hate for what the Reich had done to their country,and people, was still very much in evidence, as were the marks of the war.
reminders of that dark time still littered the countryside, plain to see.
So, I guess its a matter of perspective whether or not Germany has paid for its sins against mankind.Personally, I feel it is enough, time to move on, and build the future of man. but I will from time to time, cast a glance over my shoulder, just to be sure. - Raspenau -
It wasn’t Adenauer who made the kneefall, but Willy Brandt, who BTW was working under cover in Germany for British intelligence during the war (actually Willy Brandt is his nome de guerre, his real name was Herbert Frahm). While Adenauer was imprisoned by the Nazis for being an independent conservative, Brandt had the credibility of having been a real resistance fighter, though many conservative Germans in the 1950s and 19690s accused him of having been a traitor.
i don’t know if this falls under the punishing Germany category but a few years back a teacher told me about some 300,000 german POW’s who were shipped off the the USSR by the US at the end of the war never too be seen again. Any info?
Ach, complex topic, once again.
So many ways to look at this… Here are some random thoughts and views I can think of or I have heard of.
Punishment for what?
War? All the world powers are world powers because of wars. Highly stressed, war propaganda brainwashed Soldiers on every side commit horrible things. Alexander McKee, in Caen: Anvil of Victory, quotes a Canadian soldier as saying “The Germans weren’t too eager to surrender. We never took any Waffen-SS prisoners now and sometimes dealt with Wehrmacht formations in the same way.”
Genocide? In December 1946, the UN passed Resolution 96 (I). Shortly after the passage of Resolution 96 the Treaty Against Genocide was ratified - delineated 5 categories of genocide, one of them: “Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.” So sterilization is Genocide. And one of the largest sterilization campaigns in the US didn’t take place until 1946-1947, in one North Carolina district. Eugenics was practiced in 32 states 1909-1964. So why are germans punished from Genocide if americans are not?
Military men from soldiers to generals were “just” following orders, so someone may say “why punish them for doing what all the military men did in the world?”
Alfred Jodl was executed - and in 1953 court found that Jodl was not guilty of those war crimes for which he was convicted by the IMT, crimes against humanity, and subsequently the charges against him were abandoned. He must have been so happy, hey, wait a second, he was already executed.
So maybe Allied should have focused punishing those that were guilty of something?
Like Klaus Barbie, the Butcher of Lyon, who personally tortured prisoners and is blamed for the death of 4,000 people. But hey, isn’t he the great guy that in 1947 became an agent for the U.S. Army Counter Intelligence Corps. Strange punishment that is.
German women: At the end of WWII, Red Army soldiers raped more than 2,000,000 German women, an estimated 200,000 of whom later died from injuries sustained, committed suicide, or were murdered outright.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_atrocities
I think that is quite a punishment for staying at home 1939-1945.
…
Personally I think/feel that ““only”” two groups should have been tried (and executed).
-
Those on top who originally gave the orders for genocide/eugenics (so especially Hitler).
-
Those who misused their position to torture/loot/etc.
_
Not sure that I would agree. Shouldn’t those who originally voted in a Nazi government and all that they knew it stood for take some responsibility? If I give a loaded gun to a lunatic then shouldn’t I have some responsibility for the inevitable outcome? Many many Germans supported the Nazis despite knowing about what they stood for and intended to do. Strangely after the war all of a sudden no Germans knew any thing about what had happened to their Gypsies, mentally ill, Russian POWs, Jews, etc. Isn’t it strange that “Crystal Night” etc passed them all by with out them noticing?
This article is both fascinating and debunks the myth that the German army knew nothing about the war crimes they were involved in but after the war claimed superior orders or no knowledge.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=469620&in_page_id=1770
It seems from thsi that some German officers were genuinely disturbed by what they saw but many enjoyed the “sport” of seeing the “impure” being killed off - as mandated by the German people through their voting in such a regime.
I wouldnt lump all members of the Nazi party in the same bag. To get on you would have to be a Nazi member. So to be anything and do anything you would presumably have to go with the flow. So if you were a man who wanted to do the best you could in the late 30’s you would essentially be forced into the Nazi party, anything less and you wouldnt get on.
The same system as exists in a heck of a lot of countries both in the past and today. So not all Nazis were Nazis, if you know what I mean.