Who hates America / Americans?

9% unemployment: as most economists know, the economy visibly began to crater starting in 2007. It took 8 years to dig this hole and yet there are those who think this can be solved with a wave of the hand and by cutting taxes. LOL, it never worked before and won’t work now.

Solyndra: a mistake, I agree.

Fast and Furious: also a mistake, after a similar operation went bad under the Bush administration. A bad repeat of history.

Black Panthers? Geez, pick a different target. Was Holder working for Obama then?

Wipe out Congress? Give me a break. Kicking over sand castles is something for the kindergarten.

Term limits? We already have them. They’re called elections.

Balanced Budget amendment: ain’t never going to happen.

I stand by my opinions; you are more than welcome to stand by yours.

Well, I can’t be asked to start at the beginning of this thread and read all the way through, but here’s my view;

I like Americans, they’re all right in my book. Not a great fan of their politics and how they do some things but the people are lovely. Very generous, friendly and all round good eggs. I get bored with the overly ‘trendy’ dislike of America, usually espoused by 2nd year uni students who wear a shamagh and ‘support our revolutionary brothers in Palestine’. Not that they ever intend to visit the place or have ever met a Palestinian.

No nation is perfect (obviously us Brits are the closest thing to it) but the Americans are far from the worst.

I like Americans, lived in the states for over six years and for the most part had a great time there. Made great friends and got along with the vast majority of people I met, some were nuts or annoying but you get that everywhere. I suppose there is some truth in Americans not being thought of in the greatest light in Europe or the rest of the world but I do think that that’s on a political level more then a personal one, war in Iraq being a major point along with most things to do with Bush.
Ireland gets a good few American tourists, don’t recall them complaining about the locals but know a good few locals that have brought up how they were talking to a yank who was on holidays here but always in a good light, hell, Obama came here and the country went fecking nuts, even named him O’Bama and wrote a song about him.

I can’t (won’t) argue with you, even though you are apparently biased. But even if you right - and everything is the fault of the past administration; and, as you stated, Obama is “the smartest guy in the room” (God help us if you are right!) - why hasn’t the current gang done much to correct the problems. Instead they, like you, blame someone else (speaking of juvenile actions).
About “kicking over castles” wasn’t is Lenin or Marx (or one of those other philosophers the left is so fond of) who said something like Revolution is the locomotive of change?
As I said - Red Herrings and Straw Dogs.
BTW: Yes, Attny. Gen. Holder was working for Obama, just as he worked for Clinton when he pardoned Marc Rich, the Gregory’s (among others) and commuted the FLAN terrorist.

I really don’t want in on this debate. But…

You mentioned “straw dogs and red herrings.” Well, every president has a long list of ‘questionable’ pardons one can nitpick to death at the end of their tenure, including the guys you voted for. Such unquestioning partisan factoid tripe is exactly what is wrong with this country right now…

You’re kidding, right?

I said get rid of them all and start over again - how do you conclude who I voted for by this?

More of less - they all (politicians) have made fools of us for a long time.

You’re kidding, right?


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You didn’t vote for Clinton, and you seem to have a predilection for singling out Democratic candidates whist ignoring the transgressions of Republican ones…

It seem that ‘straw dogs and red herrings’ refers to ?Presidential? pardons, but the reference is lost on me and probably on most of us outside the US. Can you explain it for us?

I’ll keep out of the debate you blokes are having on American politics, but the ‘get rid of them all and start over again’ sentiment is shared by a lot of us down here and by many others in Western democracies who are disillusioned with major party machine politics and the tyranny of minor parties and independents in hung or minority governments.

The ‘Occupy Wall Street’ and its imitators around the world are one expression of that general dissatisfaction with the present system, albeit by people who usually have difficulty articulating precisely what it is they’re pissed off about and even greater difficulty explaining what they would do to remedy it.

The ultimate problem is that even if ‘we get rid of them all and start over again’, the people who will put themselves forward to start again are going to be politicians. So we’ll still end up with ‘same shit, different arseholes,’. Unless someone seizes power in the vacuum between demolishing the present system and starting the new one, and then we have a dictatorship which is going to be a lot worse for most of us than whatever we have now.

Much as our (i.e Australian) present system and the arrogant power-hungry arseholes who run it disgust me in many respects, it is and they are hugely better than the alternatives that most of the people on earth have to put up in Asia, Africa, the Middle East and South America, and sundry other places. Whatever the faults in modern democracies, they rein in the excesses which our politicians would engage in if they had the untramelled power of many regimes in Asia etc.

I think the following quotes sum up the virtues and vices of democracy compared with other systems.

The way people in democracies think of the government as something different from themselves is a real handicap. And, of course, sometimes the government confirms their opinion. ~Lewis Mumford, in Anne Chisholm, Philosophers of the Earth: Conversations with Ecologists, 1972

It might be more worthwhile if we stopped wringing our hands and started ringing our congressmen. ~Author Unknown

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. ~Winston Churchill

If people behaved like governments, you’d call the cops. ~Kelvin Throop

We are imperfect. We cannot expect perfect government. ~William Howard Taft

Democracy gives every man the right to be his own oppressor. ~James Russell Lowell

Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few. ~George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman, “Maxims: Education,” 1905

The government, which was designed for the people, has got into the hands of the bosses and their employers, the special interests. An invisible empire has been set up above the forms of democracy. ~Woodrow Wilson

In the absence of justice, what is sovereignty but organized robbery? ~St. Augustine

Democracy: The state of affairs in which you consent to having your pocket picked, and elect the best man to do it. ~Benjamin Lichtenberg

Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ~P.J. O’Rourke

If all the economists were laid end to end, they’d never reach a conclusion. ~George Bernard Shaw

No man is good enough to govern another man without that other’s consent. ~Abraham Lincoln

Under capitalism man exploits man; under socialism the reverse is true. ~Polish Proverb

The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them. ~Karl Marx

Governments should not possess instruments of coercion and violence denied to their citizens. ~Edgar A. Suter

Our government… teaches the whole people by its example. If the government becomes the lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. ~Louis Brandeis

A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. ~Barry Goldwater

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those others that have been tried from time to time. ~Winston Churchill

Democracy is a government where you can say what you think even if you don’t think. ~Author Unknown

The cure for capitalism’s failing would require that a government would have to rise above the interests of one class alone. ~Robert L. Heilbroner

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb. ~Author unknown, commonly misattributed to Benjamin Franklin (Thanks, Art)

Majority rule only works if you’re also considering individual rights. Because you can’t have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper. ~Attributed to Larry Flynt

Christmas is the time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for it. Deficits are when adults tell government what they want and their kids pay for it. ~Richard Lamm

Ancient Rome declined because it had a Senate, now what’s going to happen to us with both a House and a Senate? ~Will Rogers

Ohio claims they are due a president as they haven’t had one since Taft. Look at the United States, they have not had one since Lincoln. ~Will Rogers

If you want to understand your government, don’t begin by reading the Constitution. (It conveys precious little of the flavor of today’s statecraft.) Instead, read selected portions of the Washington telephone directory containing listings for all the organizations with titles beginning with the word National. ~George Will

This country has come to feel the same when Congress is in session as when the baby gets hold of a hammer. ~Will Rogers

Congress is so strange. A man gets up to speak and says nothing. Nobody listens - and then everybody disagrees. ~Boris Marshalov

Our political institutions work remarkably well. They are designed to clang against each other. The noise is democracy at work. ~Michael Novak

I’m tired of hearing it said that democracy doesn’t work. Of course it doesn’t work. We are supposed to work it. ~Alexander Woollcott

The worst thing in this world, next to anarchy, is government. ~Henry Ward Beecher, Proverbs from Plymouth Pulpit, 1887

People come to Washington believing it’s the center of power. I know I did. It was only much later that I learned that Washington is a steering wheel that’s not connected to the engine. ~Richard Goodwin

Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be. ~Sydney J. Harris

A civil servant is sometimes like a broken cannon - it won’t work and you can’t fire it. ~George S. Patton

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. ~Denis Diderot

Blessed are the young, for they shall inherit the national debt. ~Herbert Hoover, attributed

It’s not the voting that’s democracy; it’s the counting. ~Tom Stoppard, Jumpers

Talk is cheap - except when Congress does it. ~Cullen Hightower

The most important political office is that of the private citizen. ~Louis Brandeis

People often say that, in a democracy, decisions are made by a majority of the people. Of course, that is not true. Decisions are made by a majority of those who make themselves heard and who vote - a very different thing. ~Walter H. Judd

How can one conceive of a one-party system in a country that has over two hundred varieties of cheese? ~Charles de Gaulle, about France

Applause, mingled with boos and hisses, is about all that the average voter is able or willing to contribute to public life. ~Elmer Davis

Here is my first principle of foreign policy: good government at home. ~William Ewart Gladstone

Because of our Congressional committee system, our government is closer to a gerontocracy than a democracy. ~Charles Frankel

The fact that political ideologies are tangible realities is not a proof of their vitally necessary character. The bubonic plague was an extraordinarily powerful social reality, but no one would have regarded it as vitally necessary. ~Wilhelm Reich, The Mass Psychology of Fascism

Fire, water, and government know nothing of mercy. ~Proverb

I never would believe that Providence had sent a few men into the world, ready booted and spurred to ride, and millions ready saddled and bridled to be ridden. ~Richard Rumbold, 1685

Every government is a parliament of whores. The trouble is, in a democracy, the whores are us. ~P.J. O’Rourke

The Lord’s Prayer is 66 words, the Gettysburg Address is 286 words, there are 1,322 words in the Declaration of Independence, but government regulations on the sale of cabbage total 26,911 words. ~National Review

Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage. ~H.L. Mencken
http://www.quotegarden.com/government.html

Well, after having worked through and ingested those pearls of wisdom, RS, it seems clear to me that ‘Democracy’, in our western sense, has achieved the enviable position of satisfying all demands and long may it continue to do so! :wink: :slight_smile:

At the tail-end of almost every presidential tenure, there seems to be a grand tradition of granting pardons to political cronies and well connected gentry. It’s something that both sides of the isle do and I think it sucks. The typical beneficiaries were either genuinely receiving excessive sentences or who managed to donate a significant amount of their ill-gotten gains to either party…

Did I see Churchill’s quote? Something like this: “Democracy is the worst system in the world, except for all the rest.”

This is american forum hahaha :rolleyes:
The americans have different behavior like the european peoples.
The american behavior is too agressive and too wild,always looking for action and living too much in the popularity.(appreciate too much guns and violation like in a action film.)
They always convince they do the right things. (they wrong sometimes)

Most of the americans are friendly,like cool things.
These are good objects but most of them are too wild in the same way
Whole Europe is try to attend the american claims, but looks impossible
This is my opinion from the United States

All of that may be true but, for all America’s many faults, I haven’t seen America engage in its own lands or anywhere else in the savagery and butchery, reminiscent of the Einsatzgruppen in WWII, that the Europeans have engaged in in their own lands such as Yugoslavia and Chechnia within the past couple of decades as part of a long history of such activities.

‘Ethnic cleansing’ is not part of the political discourse in English-speaking countries, including America, except as a term of contempt for atrocious abuses of human rights and, worse, contempt for and extermination of innocent human beings. ‘Ethnic cleansing’ was, however, a term openly used and the practice enthusiastically employed in Europe within the past couple of decades.

I agree that America has different behaviour to (some) Europeans.

And some Europeans should be fcuking grateful that America does, otherwise Europe might descend again to Europe’s brilliant harmony 1933-1945 which lost millions of European lives, and long before America and its Allies invaded Europe to stop the depredations of the Nazis etc.

Or would you rather go back to the period when America wasn’t in Europe, when the Nazis could run their concentration camps and the Einatszgruppen could run wild as pinnacles of European cultural and humanitarian development?

Now I’m confused (not the first time) - can an opinion of America (I assume you mean the US not Canada, Mexico, Cent. and South America) only be “honest” is it doesn’t support the US?