Who realy won WW2?

In the end you’ll probably ultimately all be borrowing it from the Saudis and when the euro becomes the petroeuro and the US dollar collapses the US will default on its debts like much of South America a couple of decades ago and the Saudis won’t get paid. So borrow to the limit and have a whale of a time while you can, and make the Saudis bear the cost in the end, 'cos it’s about time the radical Islam exporting bastards had a few chickens come home to roost. :wink: :smiley:

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Agreed.

If the petrodollar / oil currency war arguments are correct, it doesn’t matter which party gets in as both have to confront the same problem threatening America’s survival, and neither party can allow America to collapse on the petrodollar problem.

I think there might be solutions to the problem other than attacking Iran in some form, although from Iran’s side it’s long been pissed off with the US and for very good reason going back to the Shah and his US supported oppressive regime (unlike the liberal democratic one which replaced it under the mullahs :rolleyes:), so I don’t know that there is much that can be negotiated.

Still, if an arrangement can be reached with Ghaddafi, who was also one of the proponents of paying for oil in euros, then anything is possible. Who knows what deals took place behind the scenes to produce this love fest?

Rice meets Gadhafi on Libya visit
Secretary of state first top U.S. official to travel to country since 1957
The Associated Press
updated 7:07 p.m. ET Sept. 5, 2008

TRIPOLI, Libya - The U.S. and Libya sealed a historic turnaround after decades of terrorist killings, American retaliation, suspicions and insults with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice’s peacemaking visit Friday with Moammar Gadhafi, Libya’s mercurial strongman.

“The relationship has been moving in a good direction for a number of years now and I think tonight does mark a new phase,” Rice said following a traditional Muslim dinner — the evening meal that breaks the day’s fast observed during the holy month of Ramadan — at Gadhafi’s official Bab el-Azizia residence.

It is the same compound hit by U.S. airstrikes in 1986 in retaliation for a deadly Libyan-linked terrorist attack in Germany. The attack killed Gadhafi’s baby daughter.

“We did talk about learning from the lessons of the past,” Rice said. “We talked about the importance of moving forward. The United States, I’ve said many times, doesn’t have any permanent enemies.”

Rice is the highest-ranking American official to visit Libya in a half-century. The United States considers Gadhafi rehabilitated since the days when President Reagan called him the “mad dog of the Middle East,” because of the Libyan’s surprise decision in 2003 to renounce terrorism and give up weapons of mass destruction. His government has also agreed to resolve legal claims from the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 and other alleged terrorist attacks that bore Libyan fingerprints.

“Libya has changed, American has changed, the world has changed,” Foreign Minister Abdel-Rahman Shalgam said following a meeting with Rice. “Forget the past.”

‘Off to a good start’
Gadhafi welcomed Rice in a room redolent of incense. Wearing flowing white robes, his trademark fez and a green pin of Africa, Gadhafi bowed slightly and put his right hand over his heart in a traditional Arab greeting. The two did not shake hands, but Gadhafi did shake the hands of Rice’s male aides.

They then exchanged pleasantries, with Rice offering Gadhafi greetings from President Bush and Gadhafi asking about the hurricanes that have hit or are headed to the U.S. mainland, before dozens of reporters, photographers and television cameramen were ushered out.

Their small talk belied almost 30 years of dismal U.S.-Libyan relations that hit their low point in the 1980s when Reagan ordered the retaliatory airstrike and Gadhafi swore revenge.

“We’re off to a good start,” Rice said later. “It is only a start, but I think, after many, many years, it’s a very good thing that the United States and Libya are establishing a way forward.”

The United States withdrew its ambassador from Libya in 1972 after Gadhafi renounced agreements with the West and vilified the United States in speeches and public statements. Washington cut off diplomatic relations with Libya after a mob sacked and burned the American Embassy in 1979.

Doting admirer
The notoriously secretive Gadhafi was to host Rice at but the venue remained mysterious and U.S. officials could say only that they expected it to be in a tent.

Gadhafi is known for often unpredictable behavior and has cultivated images as both an Arab potentate and African monarch since taking power in a 1969 coup. In a televised address to the nation this week he said he considers the United States neither a friend nor an enemy.

‘Leeza, Leeza’
In an interview with Al-Jazeera television last year, Gadhafi spoke of Rice in most unusual terms, calling her “Leezza” and suggesting that she actually runs the Arab world, with which he has had severe differences in the past.

“I support my darling black African woman,” he said. “I admire and am very proud of the way she leans back and gives orders to the Arab leaders. … Leezza, Leezza, Leezza. … I love her very much. I admire her, and I’m proud of her, because she’s a black woman of African origin.”

Rice is the first secretary of state to visit Libya since John Foster Dulles in 1953 and the highest-ranking U.S. official to visit since then-Vice President Richard Nixon in 1957.

Libya has agreed to pay compensation to the families of victims of the 1988 Pan Am bombing over Lockerbie, Scotland, and those of a 1986 attack on a disco in Berlin. The disco attack killed two U.S. servicemen and drew Reagan’s order to attack Libyan targets, including Gadhafi’s residence.

Brief stop
Rice was spending only a few hours in Tripoli, an ancient city fronting the Mediterranean Sea and backing to the North African desert but took time to visit the offices that serve as the U.S. Embassy in Libya.

Plans to send a full-fledged ambassador and build a new embassy are hung up in Congress over concern that Libya has not fulfilled its promises to compensate terror victims.

Rice’s visit comes amid a surge in interest from U.S. companies, particularly in the energy sector, to do business in Libya, where European companies have had much greater access in recent years. Libya’s proven oil reserves are the ninth largest in the world, close to 39 billion barrels, and vast areas remain unexplored for new deposits.

Rice said she raised the case of a prominent Libyan dissident who remains detained, and said she discussed other human rights concerns “respectfully.” Shalgam defended Libya’s record.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26556706/

Your posts are beginning to look like flaming, as was said before, this is no church, nor a soap box.
Next, if you wish to be taken seriously, do please work on your spelling, and grammar, it is difficult to read your posts.

No offence, but I have to agree with Tank. This is a twenty something years old lady from an English speaking country and her spelling is worst than mine, not to say the typing style.
Wonder if she has Microsoft Words or some kind of word processing software, it would come handy.

Following on from tankgeezer’s last post, I think it’s time to stop the forum’s recent slide into kindergarten questions about military history, many of which can be seen in the topics if one clicks on Today’s Posts and all of which could readily be answered by the first few returns on a Google search and which no halfway serious student of WWII would even think about asking.

We’re here for a discussion of WWII topics in which we might all educate each other, but we’re not here to respond to trivial and stupid topics, unless they’re of sufficient and intentional triviality and stupidity to be fun for moderately intelligent people with a passing acquaintance with something approximating conventional English; a bit of historical knowledge; and reasonably logical thought processes.

We all make typos and some of us don’t have the best grammar and spelling, but that’s all ignored and unimportant when people are making useful contributions.

Without covering in detail the points already made in response to the following dissected post, here is why it’s time to shut the kindergarten, apart from the fractured and not always intelligible txt nglsh n sht, n shithse pnktuashn.

He isn’t.

ist? Was ist das?

Oh, ist stands for isn’t, which has a negative n and an apostrophe to indicate that it’s not is. Who would have thought that?

Along with the original invaders being the UK and your and my own country ali j.

Produce evidence to support this claim, 4 eye dnt unrstnd wtf ur dissin da yanks 4 dude wen we was wif dem as hrd as wee cd goo

Y nt?

Their a PITA but hoo wood b btr?

C wot hpns to Oshtraya if da Chinks bust a cap in da yanks arse and dem dudes cum 2 B da top boyz in da fkn hood.

Completely unopposed, the arrogant oppressive capitalist and communist bastards they were, slamming their militaristic heels on the innocent Nazi neck.

Know.

Da yank dudes just fkd aroun bldg da bgst bdst mofo fkn bomm wot made da Japs shit there panties wif fear turds shootn like rkts out of they’re arses.

Yay!

Rite on, dood!

Like, da yanks neerly lst da war cuz da fkn Nastys was blastn da yanks to da shithse wif dear rkts n sht n stf wot wos so hitek dat da Nasies lost da war, weak cnts dey wer.

Yay!

Agen!

Rigte on, dud!

Agen!

Cuz da ynks had to nuke da japs wif da infeereeor ynk teknollogy 2 stop da japs nukkin wshngtn n sht in da UAS cuz da Japs woz at da point uv victory wot wif nukkin Kalifornikation n stuf.

Ime sik of dis sht dat da ynaks one da fkn war.

I meen, wtf did dey do apart frm nukn Japn n shit and marchin in2 Berlin n shit??

Yerh.

I bet dem ynks carnt arnsr dat qstn.

Rising Sun, guess the typing style is contagious. LMAO

Yeh, rite, now yore accuzin da yanks of germ wrfre n sht n stuf corzed bi dere typin not bein stylish n sht. :wink: :smiley:

Please stop. My head hurts after trying to read that.

I would answer you but have no idea what the hell you were saying R/S.
What happend too youre grammer.
Even my typing can be understood.:smiley:

If someone is not a born english speaker, that is a very different matter, but the mentioned posts were looking like text speak, not forum speak. in any case, difficult to read. R.S. is correct in that there are too many posts about things like what if, and what if with time machines, etc. okay for a chat room, but not in the best interests of this site.this is not a stern rebuke, just a heads up. (I remember being your ages,)
Ali J , would you be so kind as to tell us a bit about yourself? just so we can get to know you better.

Good point.

My comments were not directed to people whose first language is not English, all of whom on this forum write far better English than the txt spk style. Evan Chevan with a few litres of Russian rocket fuel under his belt has far better English and makes a lot more sense. :smiley:

You’re not fooling anyone.

We all know you can’t remember that far back. :smiley:

pdf27

Are you sure It’s all that reading that is hurting your head? Surely it’s all that fine English ale…

Paul

Actually the worrying part for me was that I could understand most of it !!!:roll::mrgreen:

Hey Tankgeezer.I didt start the time machine thread ,someone else did.
What do you want to know about me?I love History but ww2 is my fav.
Cheers.

Rising sun gets my voted for the best reply of the year…so far…LMAOROTF :slight_smile:

You must have a talent that the rest of us dont have.:wink:
Maybe Hitler won the war for the Allies cause of his stupility.

Well, thats probably true, My misspent youth has taken its toll, along with the German beer of my late adolescence (army days) and my early middle age, (many a hogshead of rye whiskey) now, what were we talking about??? :slight_smile:

look, as i see it we all won the war.each country gained and lost.

Id say if any nation lost the war it had to be Poland.England and France went to war because of them and when the war ended allowed Stalin to move in.Theres is a world of differance between the Chinese rockets and the inter continental ballistic missles that the Germans were developing.Proof of that is werner von braun being a member of the nazi party and an acting ss officer being allowed to immigrate to the usa hence helping the americans win the space race.

After Germany Poland was probably the next biggest loser of the war because they were on the winning side. There were two Polish divisions fighting in Italy and one or two in NW Europe as well as Polish squadrons flying with the RAF. Those men must have been screaming mad at the end of the war.

Originally Posted by Kato
The USSR was a loser of WWII as it failed to conquer Europe leaving most of it to the US sphere of influence and ceased to exist in less than half a century. Spain did not participate in WWII and could not win or lose.
The real winner is the US with its political and economic project for the of the world

I don’t think USSR can in any way be listed as a loser of WW2 considering that they fought and defeated the largest portion of the German war machine. They didn’t fail to conquer Europe as their aim was to repel the Nazi invaders, which they did, and “liberated” eastern countries from Nazi control. The end of the war saw a big part of eastern Europe fall under Soviet control and after the war some weaker states, regardless of the US sphere of influence and the fact that they didn’t want to help, fell under Soviet domination. (Of course this doesn’t mean that Stalin didn’t have dreams of expansion before the war.) Liberating the people of Europe from tyranny came to an end when the eagle met the bear at Berlin. The Soviets not only gained the territory of eastern Europe and all the resources contained but also ended the war as one of only two superpowers in the world. Put that together with the ass whoopin they put on Germany and they emerge a clear winner.