ww2 military deaths

‘We’ ?

You’re older than I thought ![/quote]

[Walter]
Oops. I should have said ‘I’. WW2 was a sole effort by myself to destroy the Nazis and Japanese. Everyone else was just a distraction from the main effort. [/Mitty]

You are right, I used a horrible turn of phrase, more often seen when footballer fans say ‘we beat’ rather than ‘my team beat’ when talking about the results of a football match. To the edit button!

Edit: Oh, so it wasn’t me after all! :oops: Reading other people’s posts always helps. I very nearly did refer to the allied war effort as ‘we’. I’ll leave this post here as a general apology to those who actually did fight, whether they frequent this forum or not

They do? I’ve only head teenagers spout that crap.

No, but they faught in the North Korean winter at -40 below for extended period of time. The Korean weather was just as cold. Probably worse because it is also more humid there than in Russia. Korea is an ithsmas.

You’ve lost it. You’re thinking of North Africa dude. Not Europe. That is absolutely and completely false. After D-Day, the US forces comprised the strong majority of the forces fighting against Germany in Europe in the west. I cannot image how you got so mislead.

Ironman I think Hosenfield got the idea from the fact that two thirds of the invasion force on D day were comprised of British and Commonwealth forces and that when Hitler released the Amoured units held back for the expected crossing at the pas de callais they moved south to counter the advance of the Brithish and Commonwealth forces.
I’m certain that before the end of June US forces out numbered British and Commonwealth forces but in the aftermath of the invasion days were designated as D day plus and not 6th 7th etc of June, so in some respects you are both right.
I notice that in your previous post you mentioned Korea, there is another poster who has mentioned US winter actions in Korea ( Chosin IIRC ) if you check back through some of the threads you may find the posts and the links he posted with them.

Hey, I’m not trying to say that the US did all the fighting. I’d never make such a stupid statement. Good information though. Your post has some good info. Thanks. Yes, I agree. I also think we are both right.

It’s certainly true that the British kicked ther German’s asses in Africa. The tactics of the tank battles were superior, and they fooled the Nazis and then smoked em.

Ardennes was rough, and the Canadians did some real fighting at Market Garden.

I thought Arnhem was British and Polish rather than Canadian troops. Incidentally, Market Garden included the US parachute attacks on the nearer bridges (Nijmegen and the like? Can’t quite remember).

Market garden was the attempt to end the war by christmas.

A failed attempt. The biggest success was the US paratroopers capture of the Bridges at Gravre and Nimejen. The ground force was spearheaded initially by the Irish Guards of XXX Corps.

The biggest debacle was at Arnhem where the British made a pigs ear of it.

The whole thing was a gamble that never paid of and spookiliy enough its almost the anniversary now:

Try this if interested:

http://www.arnhemarchive.org/frames.htm

I’ll be attending the commemorative parachute drop on Saturday if I can drag myself out of bed & drive to Ede for 10am.

superior tactics?? You mean winning the war of supply and raw numbers. Rommel wasn’t called the “desert fox” for nothing.

and , i was talking about the caen area.

superior tactics?? You mean winning the war of supply and raw numbers. Rommel wasn’t called the “desert fox” for nothing.

and , i was talking about the caen area.[/quote]

OK. But there was a major tank battle in North Africa in which the British tricked the Germans and then whooped them good. BBC has a multimedia demonstation of this battle and audio describing it on their web site. It is very cool.

The nuclear bomb gave the U.S. most recognition for winning the war. Also, the Japanese did sustain many more osses but that’s because of the way they fought. They had kamikaze attacks on many battles and would fight to extinction. They were proud to die for the Emperor, only the dead were awarded in the Japanese forces. And that’s also, in a way, how the Russians would fight battles. The U.S. sustained minimal casualties (compared to others) because of a different fighting style, and also we took care of our wounded. I remember reading in Flags of Our Fathers that a captured Japanese officer asked a Medic why they were waisting so many medic supplies on their men. The way you fought came out in casualties.

The experience of the General (later Field Marshal and Viscount) Slim was that the reason behind Japanese successes was the same as the reason for them taking high casualties. The reasons are twofold - the behaviour of the commander and the individual soldier.

Individual Soldier -
Individual Japanese soldiers rarely surrendered. They would routinely fight to the death, even in obviously hopeless situations. This is an advantage, in that a defence can be made stronger if the defenders will not surrender despite casualties and an attack is harder to blunt if the individuals will continue to attack regardless. It carries with it the obvious disadvantage that unless the commander orders a withdrawal, defending units will be completely lost and an attack that fails will fail with very heavy losses on the Japanese side. Slim noted that about ten soldiers was the most that could be expected to be captured from the destruction of a roughly battalion sized formation (I don’t have the book handy, so will have to check numbers later).

Commander -
In battle, it is important to have a reserve. That is, troops not engaged by the enemy who can be deployed to exploit successes or block enemy counter attacks etc. Having your own reserve committed while the enemy commander retains his is often a ticket to defeat as he has freedom of action while all your units are engaged. For this reason, commanders are reluctant ever to commit all their reserve to battle.
Early Japanese successes in Russia are partly attributed to the willingness of the Japanese Commander to commit his entire reserve to battle. This had the effect of tipping the balance of a closely fought battles in favour of the Japanese. This was repeated across China and through Burma.

Soldier and Commander Combination -
Because the individual soldier would not surrender, and the commander would almost routinely commit his reserve, the Imperial Japanese Army could mount very effective attacks and resist enemy attacks better than might be expected by a similar formation from the other major combatants. This strength was the cause of the major vulnerability. If an IJA attack could be stopped, the casualties taken by the Japanese would be high and the commander would have no reserve, making him vulnerable to a rapid counter attack. Similarly, defeating a Japanese defensive position was tough, but succeeding would then leave an greater opportunity to exploit the success than would be expected against, say, the Germans.

Thus, although the characteristics described above were a vital part of the success of the IJA they were also the source of a key weakness, one that was exploited by Slim in Burma with great success.

Just a thought from the 1st post’s quantities- figures from declassified government documents released in the 1990s show some 303,000 US combat deaths. And the 2.5 million Chinese deaths is WAY low when they were being slaughtered from the occupation of Manchuria 1931-1945.

Wasn’t it around the 7 million mark?

Off-topic: Skobert, please resize your avatar. Check this:
http://www.ww2incolor.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=7009#7009

Missed that one :oops:

This is purely opinion on my part, but I am going to speculate on these numbers. I’ve thought about it often, and can come up with numerous reasons for the drastic differences in casualities. First of all, for Germany and Japan, they were both fighting quite awhile before the US came into the picture. Thats probably pretty obvious to us all, so that accounts for some of those numbers. Also, the bulk of their fighting forces were their armies. Certainly Japan had quite a Navy, and Germany had quite the Air Force. However, they still concentrated their efforts on building armies. Certainly the US had a mighty army as well. But the US had probably the mightest of the Air Forces, and they inflicted many many military deaths(and of course civilian, but we are only talking military numbers here) through their bombing and dogfighting campaigns. I think the Army Air Force (along with Navy and Marine airpower) played a critical role in decisive turning points in the war as well. Think of the Battle of Midway for instance. Without US airpower, Yamamoto’s Navy could have inflicted much more damage to a lot more than just the US. The daylight raids flown day after day into the heart of Germany broke the Nazi’s back. There are so many examples. Now, I don’t want anyone to think by me saying this that I believe that the Navy, Marines, and Army did not contribute significantly to the war. I simply think that our airpower ability grew to be superior to any other axis or allied country by the time the war ended. Again, please don’t think that by me saying that I think that the other countries did not have worthy airpower. They certainly did. Certainly we lost a lot of men to our air endevors. We lost 28,000 men belonging to bomber crews in the ETO alone. I think we would have lost a LOT more had we had to achieve all we achieved through virtually all ground forces alone, which is what those countries that suffered such great losses pretty much had to do. There is much to consider in the contemplation of such an issue. I don’t think there is any right or wrong answer to it, and there are certainly many facets to the possibilities.

I wonder what would be the result if we just compared casualties. The US medical services were good and US casualties were removed from the battlefield asap, the same obviously cant be said for Japanese wounded.

Has anyone just compared casualties then?