AK-47 vs MP-44

I read a lot of posts on this and other boards regarding claiming various facts about the heritage of the AK-47 and the MP-44 (MP43/MP44/Stg44).

Inveraibly someone will post that the AK-47 is a copy of the MP-44, and then someone will reply that they only look similar and that internally they are completly different. The reality is that the truth is somewhere in between these 2 view points.

So lets break the arguments for and against down:

  1. AK47 looks like the MP44.
    This is true, but as often said form follows function and the use of the gas operating system and shape of both the 8mm kurz and 7.62M43 round necessates the curved magazine. What is new in the MP44 is the free standing pistol grip, no other rifle of the time has this feature, which greatly simplified gunnery training and snap shot accurcy. The AK-47 was the first Soviet rifle to have a free standing pistol grip.

  2. Operation of AK-47 is completely different.
    I have heard some poeple claim that the MP44 was recoil operated. This is false. Both rifles are gas operated and fire from a closed bolt. Even the design of the gas system is identical. Where they differ is in how they lock the bolt. The AK-47 uses a rotating bolt like the m1 Garand and the MP44 uses a wedge lock like the SVT-40.

The trigger group is also different but not completely. They both have a claw hammer and the use of coiled wire springs is completly new in a Soviet design (as used in the G43 and MP-44). Personally I would not be surprised if the AK’s trigger group is a simplified version of the MP-44’s. But that is conjecture, I do know that the fire selector is a copy of a previous design. It is also interesting to note that the very first Assault rifle trials in the USSR was with a open bolt design.

Another point of simularity is that both designs are made from pressed steel with only minimal stampings. In the case of the AK-47 this was quickly dropped as industrial manufacturing techniques were not yet up to the standard required. The machined receiver in the AK47 (the part where the bolt locks) is very similar in design to the one in the MP44. Again the idea of having a small machined receiver housed in a sheet steel body is a concept unique to the MP44 (at the time). When the MKb42 was first designed, the very first prototype was actually made out of machined steel once it was shown that the design was sound, experts in manufacturing with steel pressings were contracted to Heanel to apply the technology to the MKb42.

Personally the most significant fact in the whole debate is that Hugo Schmeisser the designer behind the MP-44 was working in the same factory where Kalshinokov was perfecting the AK-47 and he stayed there from 1946 to 1949, the very year that the AK47 went into service!

To conclude I don’t believe the AK-47 is a direct copy of the MP44, in reality it uses different features of various other arms and the design has nothing new or revolutionary.

However there is enough similarity to the MP-44 coupled to the fact that Schmeisser himself worked on it, to say that the MP-44 is a close ancestor to the AK47 (like the StG45 is the ancestor to the CETME & G3

(at work at the moment, will post references when I get home :oops: )

i prefer mp44,but ak47 is cheaper and faster produced,no?

I haven’t done a comparison, but I believe the MP-44 would have been the cheaper and faster to manufacture.

I haven’t done a comparison, but I believe the MP-44 would have been the cheaper and faster to manufacture.[/quote]
REALLY? :shock: ,wow.

btw,gunpics.net is great!. 8)

I haven’t done a comparison, but I believe the MP-44 would have been the cheaper and faster to manufacture.[/quote]

But wasnt the Ak47 made after WWI?, and I would have to go with the AK47 if I had a choice of the two.

yes, ak 47 is made in 1947, and ak 74 is made in 1974

ya, i got it. But surely the Ak-47 would win in most aspects!

yeah, i agree on that
if compare, i rather to compare MP-44 with PPSH - 41

(edit my own post, it seems i am insulting someone, so ya)

Why compare 2 wpns of different categories? Chalk & cheese, mate!

I heard about an American shooting magazine doing a sort of “double-blind test” with the Stg.44 and AK47.

They put some people in a range with one of each, operating instructions, and had them load, fire, strip, clean etc. both of the wpns until they’d got the feel for them.

The question was something like “if you had to go into battle tomorrow, which would you take”, and the answer was a resounding victory for the MP44.

Having personally fired both, I would concur.

Kalashnikov got his first ideas, while he was in military hospital, recovering from injuries during the war, but it took several years to iron out the snags of the prototypes. The AK-47 was then officially introduced into Soviet Army inventory in 1947.

Jan

Kalashnikov got his first ideas, while he was in military hospital, recovering from injuries during the war, but it took several years to iron out the snags of the prototypes. The AK-47 was then officially introduced into Soviet Army inventory in 1947.

Jan[/quote]

Jan, that is not entirely correct, prior to the war he was an engineer, during his recovery time in the hospital he worked on a new SMG. This design had merit so the authorities encouraged him further. In 1947 his design won the competition for the next service rifle. It wasn’t until 1949 that it officially went into service.

What that person said was that the MP-44 was the inspiration for the AK-47, which is true, even if only in general form. There are no two other assualt rifles in the world that look more alike than the two. Wasn’t the MP-43/44 prodused long before the AK-47? Has there been any other assualt rifle that looks anywhere nearly as similar to another as these two?

Nobody is saying that the AK-47’s mechanical design was based on the MP-44. Only that the ergonomic form of the MP-44 was the inspirationf for the same in the AK-47, which is supported by many sources. If you look into it, you will see that there are many very knowledgable weapons experts and affectionados who state that this is so. Personally, I believe them. The similarities between the two in form are too great and too rare for it to ba coincidence.

Which pair look more similar?


OR


Does that mean that the FAL is the inspiration for the G3, even if only in general form?

It really is simply a question of form following function.

Stoat, please ignore him. I started this thread for some intelligent discussion not as troll bait. If you ignore the troll, it’ll go away.

The bottom pair are quite obviously more similar in form.

Exactly. :wink: