Alternative fuels

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#1

Reading through WWII in Color I had seen one picture of German Panzer with gas bottles - I cannot find it now :frowning: perhaps someone will help.
I remember that back in Poland I heard many stories about “Holz gas” powered cars and other vehicles.
Holz gas or wood gas is quite different design than bottled methane or LPG. The principle is simple - large “boiler” filled with wood and tightly closed, (preferable sawdust but any small pieces of wood tightly packed will do), and with small wood burner underneath.
Heating wood without oxygen creates gas which through the pipe and modified carburettor power the vehicle.
Look at the pictures:

and some cars:

I think that it would be lovely to have a car like that in a garage… :smiley:
Need to fill tank? Stop in the woods, gather some wood, fill up tank, add some fresh pieces to the burner, have a cuppa and drive again for free.

Do you have more information about this technology?

Cheers,

Lancer44

#2

Fascinating topic, nice to see related pictures grouped in this post. :slight_smile:

Too bad that there isn’t overwhelming amount of information available. Many “stories” from 1945 involve vehicles with alternate power source. It would be interesting to know large percentage of vehicles were “tweaked” this way, and how they performed.

#3

i herad about some kubelwagens on holzgas, anybody have some information?

#4

Here you can see excellent photo of Marder with LPG bottles.

and PzIV with clearly visible gas bottles.

I’m not sure if this is the same I had seen somewhere on WWII in Color…

It’s not clear if Marder III LPG was used in combat or for training only.
Positioning of bottles indicates training. I cannot imagine the effect of
direct hit into the bottles… I would not like to be inside or anywhere nearby.

Cheers,

Lancer44

#5

You’re right. It’s quite strange to mount the bottles on front armour of that Marder… It seems to be prepared for the tests only.

#6

Hi Kroat369, :slight_smile:

Here is your holzgas kubelwagen:

and beetle…

added: refuelling holzgas car :slight_smile:

Enjoy!

Lancer44

#7

The beetle would have been ideal, with the engine being at the back, there must have been loads of room in the front for the tank.

#8

Hi SS Tiger, :slight_smile:

You’re perfectly right. I have photo of open front of Beetle at work, will send Monday.

BTW information for any forum members - google “producer gas” and you’ll get abundant info… 8)

Cheers,

Lancer44

#9

tnx lancer, good pics… :smiley:

#10

Salute Horvat369 :wink:

Look at that: http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/3.shtml

I think now about buying an old “bomb” and converting it to “holzgas”…
Why not? I will have something to do for a few month and it can just stay in the garage. One day no one will be able to drive because arabs will cut oil… and … hey… I will drive without any traffic at all. :slight_smile: If I will live long enough…

CAN WE START SOME “HOLZGAS” TOPIC IN General discussions"?
I’m too fresh on this Forum, but Moderators can spark it. We need blueprints of Swedish Charcoal System…

Regards,

Lancer44

#11

Additional Beetle photo.

Cheers,

Lancer44

#12

Another german vehicle with alternative fuel, this time acetilene.

The purpose of this was training only .

A curios fact is that in here there is about 1.5000.000 cars since 1989 that used natural gas as fuel…because is far more cheaper than gasoline.

#13

And Italian tank - probably L-40 with gas generator.

Beside photo I don’t have any info about it. It looks like sort of the generator “loading” compressed producer gas into tank/bottles.
I don’t think tank was pulling it behind in battle…

P.S

LPG is great as well. I have my Ford running on it and have fun each time I fill it. Today ULP (unleaded) in Australia cost about $1.32 per litre adn LPG $0.49.

Lancer44

#14

My wife, bless her heart, found instructions somewhere for converting a conventional gasoline engine to run on a combination of gasoline and hydrogen gas. Supposed to quadruple your gas milage, but from what I could see of the plans, t’was a very complicated gadgett, requireing lots and lots of adjustment. Still and all, 44 mpg rather than 11? Might be worth it.

wajdi

#15

The hidrogen is almost a uneding sourse of energy but still is expensive to produce in large cuantities.

The Metanol/etanol/biodiesel wich are vegetables derivates are far more cheap for tha mass consumption and obviously renoble.

BMW have a model of his 750 series alerady prepared for the Hidrogen fuel.

#16

Maybe the reason this alternative fuel didn’t become popular is becuase the tanks looks very vulnerable. An infantry man could just put a couple of shots into the fuel tanks and the vehicle could be immobolized. But if the fuel tanks were armored then that would be a different story. But it looks like that PzIV is combat ready as well as the SD KFZ 251C. Just taking a guess at the model of the halftrack.

#17

Yes it is a 251.

#18

It was not as much popularity as neccesity. Germans late in 1944 just had no choice - Romanian oilfields were lost, Boryslav-Drohobycz oilfields lost,
synthetic petrol plants nearly bombed out. Frontline troops only were receiving what remained in fuel dumps. Training and support vehicles had to go on wood gas.
I don’t think PzIV would go well on gas. Gas installation causes lost of about 30% of power and tank would move like a snail.
I had an opportunity of hearing some stories about cars and trucks being converted to holzgas in Warsaw in 1942-43. It was a laughing stock.
They sounded and run horrible. I don’t know if many of you had an opportunity to hear sound of East German Trabi. In comparison with holzgas DKW, the sound of Trabi was beautiful.

It is interesting that mechanics which worked on conversions had to sign that they will keep secret.
I also asked one bloke which used to work in Wehrmacht garages and no one wanted any secrecy from him. What could be secret in kubelwagen engine?
Conversions to holzgas were treated as the obvious sign that Germans are losing the war.

Cheers,

Lancer44