http://www.eisenhowerinstitute.org/programs/livinghistory/SovietExperienceww2.htm
Very informative…I learned alot.
This is a very sensible material! With right attitude!
Do you have any info on the author, JT Dykman?
Here are some comments from me:
The populations of the United States and the USSR were about the same, 130,000,000, when both nations went to war within six months of each other in 1941.
The population of USSR was about 190 million. I guess only Russian Federation accounted for 130 million.
For every American soldier killed fighting the Germans, eighty Soviet soldiers died fighting them.
This assumes Soviet losses of 11,2 million compared to app. 0,14 million American losses.
The problem is that the Soviet number is dead + missing + dead as POW,
wheras American ones are only dead + missing.
But it is of course true that Sovets lost many-many times more people.
In the west, prisoners were generally fed and housed by both sides. In the USSR both sides killed their prisoners by forced labor, malnutrition and unattended disease.
We have discussed the POW issue. You saw that probability of a Axis POW to survive through the captivity was 3-4 times higher compared to a Soviet soldier in German captivity. Only in during July 1941 - January 1942 (7 months) about 2.8 million (!) of Soviet POW died due to neglect and starvation.
The nutrition of the POW in USSR is a separate topic, I can cover it in an other thread if you want.
In the west, the generals, on both sides, usually tried to use tactics of encirclement with the goal being to capture the enemy. In the war in the east the tactics were predominately frontal assaults on the ground with the only goal being to kill the enemy.
This is wrong statement for… Germany in the first half of the WW2… USSR for second part of WW2.
Agree with Egorka.
Rising Sun where get you the simular “historians” who don’t even know the rough figure of population of USSR in the 1941?
Cheers.
p.s. not bad article though…
I thought there was a bit of doubt about the real population versus the 1939 census figure.
In early 1936, Josef Stalin had a talk with I.A. Kraval, the head of the agency preparing to conduct the first national census since 1926 – the Central Economic Accounts Administration. Stalin told Kraval that the new census would show a figure of 170 million, a significant increase over the 147 million in 1926. The 170 million figure would disregard the staggering losses from the collectivization of agriculture, famine, and the operation of the purges and terror. But Kraval, his chief associate, O.A. Kvitkin, and the census takers results showed a total national population of only 162 million. Moreover, the census revealed other unpopular information including the fact that nearly half of the population was religious – this after two decades of official atheism. When Stalin learned the results, the census was denounced as a “wrecker’s census” and those who took it were either imprisoned or shot. A new census was ordered. This 1939 census also showed a figure of approximately 162 million, but the census takers, mindful of their predecessors’ fate, told Stalin the number was 170 million. Understandably, the actual aggregate figures were immediately classified and remained so until the 1990s.
http://www.library.yale.edu/slavic/microform/census3739.html
No.
He seems to be something to do with the Eisenhower Institute.
I happened to find the paper while looking for something else, so that’s as much as I know about it.
Oh Reasing Sun this is ancient pro-Goebbels propoganda about falsification of the soviet census figure in 1939.
You may be don’t know but after the WW2 in the 1953-55 ( after Stalins death) the soviet population was about 210 mln.
So if in 1939 the population was the 130 mln or about how could you explaine the 70 mln increase of the soviet population for the period that included the terrible WW2?(the USSR lost about 20 mln of population).
I could admite in 1939 the some innacuacy( becouse of Stalin pressure) was possible( ( +/- 5mln) but this is nonsence the population of USSR was 30 mln less.
The 1939 figure in the link is 162 million.
I’m taking it at face value that that is what the census documents it summarises say.
As for the 1953-55 figure, wouldn’t this include the people in additions to the USSR, such as Poland and Hungary, which were not in the USSR in 1939?
I mean your previouse post about 130 mln.
As for the 1953-55 figure, wouldn’t this include the people in additions to the USSR, such as Poland and Hungary, which were not in the USSR in 1939?
Sure.
The territory of Western Ukraine(about 4 mln peoples), Belorussia(about 1 mln) and Bessarabia ( 1-2 mln) were joined to the USSR.
And what do you really think those territory with common population about 5-6 mln ( its about 3% of population of USSR) could explain the “demography explosion” after the war till over 70 mln?
I don’t think I’ve ever used 130m.
The article in the link in the first post uses it, but I’ve always been under the impression that the 1939 census figure was the correct one. If they didn’t know, who did.
Sure.
The territory of Western Ukraine(about 4 mln peoples), Belorussia(about 1 mln) and Bessarabia ( 1-2 mln) were joined to the USSR.
And what do you really think those territory with common population about 5-6 mln ( its about 3% of population of USSR) could explain the “demography explosion” after the war till over 70 mln?
So how do you explain the increase from 162m in 1939?
Either that figure was wrong, or the later figure was wrong.
Sorry Rising Sun my tupoo.
The next censor was athe the 1958 year. We have the figure 208 mln
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Всесоюзная_перепись_населения_СССР_1959_года
I don’t know too But some of brain activity could help…
So how do you explain the increase from 162m in 1939?
From 170 mln.
The officials figures that confirmed the moder russian historian science. is 170 mln.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Всесоюзная_перепись_населения_СССР_1939_года
^There is nothing hard to explain if the populationincreaseb over 15% per yach 10 years. The population of USSR could reach the figure 170 + 25 ( 17015%) + 29 ( 19515%.) + about 8 mln from joined territories after WW2 = 232 mln of people.
The loses in WW2 were about 20 -25 so we could get the 208 mln in the 1959 ( as it endeed was).
Either that figure was wrong, or the later figure was wrong.
Nothing is wriong Rising Sun.
Even if we will admit the some inacuracy +/-5mln in 1939 as i said.
What is ‘tupoo’?
Mistake?
This sounds like a word I could use elsewhere, so I need to know. 
Thanks for explaining the figures.
Nothing is wriong Rising Sun.
That’s what you think. Wait till Egorka gets his mathematical teeth into the numbers.
Oh damn;)
Sorry Rising Sun this means mistake sure.
Thanks for explaining the figures.
That’s what you think. Wait till Egorka gets his mathematical teeth into the numbers.
I’m afraid his mathematical teeth will have proved something the new physical theory or world;) or something like that.
Though his mathematical teeth is very useful for inderstanding some of WW2 events that we commonly simply misunderstand.
Cheers.
Great!
As long as Egorka doesn’t make tupoo, he wont’ be in too much poo!
Now you know why I want to use ‘tupoo’ for ‘mistake’ in English, because ‘in the poo’ means ‘in the shit’ And ‘too’ is an intensifier in that case. So many people I know are going to be in tupoo in the next few weeks.
I have to go home now…
I can say that according to russian enciclopedy of ethnografy from 1994 (Народонаселение. Энциклопедический словарь. М., 1994), the USSR’s population was 195,3 mil in 1941.
That is with together with ALL newly enclosed territories, which, if I am not mistaken, accounted for app. 15 mil people.
Have to go now…
So why did Stalin’s census takers in 1939 come up with only 162m? Even adding 15m for new territories makes it only 177m.
I accept that sinking the old beef bayonet into the bearded clam was a popular recreation before television, and even electricity, reached the remoter regions , but the Soviets would have had to be breeding like rabbits to make those figures from 1939.
Is the problem to do with the geographical areas included in the censuses?
From a quick search I get that the rough population on the “new” territories in 1941 was like this:
[u]millions[/u]
bessarabia 3.5
poland east 15.0
bukovina 0.6
estonia 1.2
latvia 2.1
litva [u] 2.6 [/u]
app. 25.0
So depending on if you think that the USSR census of 1939 was falcified or not then you should add app. 25 million to either 162 mil or to 170 mil.
So the approximate result is either 187 mil or 195 mil.
Sure mate i 've forgot about Baltic states.
Just little addition:
In Bessarabia ( Moldova) today lives no more 3,3 mln peoples- i doubt in 1940 they were more than 2 million.
And i/m not sure the in the Western Ukraine and Belorussia lived the 15 millions coz the whole Population of Ukraine ( about 37mln in the 1950) and Belorussia ( about 6-7 mln in 1950). So i think in the western areas leved no more 8-10 mln.
Chevan, remember the maps from US state department commission. I mentioned them in some other threads. So he it is again: http://www.gutenberg-e.org/osc01/oscarc02.html
Bessarabia: 2,2 mil in 1930. http://www.gutenberg-e.org/osc01/images/osc07l.jpg
Poland east: 12.0 mil in 1931. Poland had the highest population growth rate in Europe back then. http://www.gutenberg-e.org/osc01/images/osc07n.jpg
The numbers I used I estimated from these ones.