Armistice Day / Remembrance Veterans' Day

Off-Topic Off Topic
#1

To All my People.Tuesday next, November 11th, is the first anniversary of the Armistice, which stayed the world wide carnage of the four preceding years, and marked the victory of Right and Freedom. I believe that my people in every part of the Empire fervently wish to perpetuate the memory of that Great Deliverance, and of those who laid down their lives to achieve it. To afford an opportunity for the universal expression of this feeling, it is my desire and hope that at the hour when the Armistice came into force, the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month, there may be, for the brief space of two minutes, a complete suspension of all our normal activities. During that time, except in the rare cases where this may be impracticable, all work, all sound, and all locomotion should cease, so that, in perfect stillness, the thoughts of everyone may be concentrated on reverent remembrance of the Glorious Dead.No elaborate organisation appears to be necessary. At a given signal, which can easily be arranged to suit the circumstances of each locality, I believe that we shall all gladly interrupt our business and pleasure, whatever it may be, and unite in this simple service of Silence and Remembrance.
George R.I

- Proclamation by King George V before Armistice Day, 1919

"… One of the most tragic features of the Great War was the number of casualties reported as ‘Missing, believed killed’. To their relatives there must have been added to their grief a tinge of bitterness and a feeling that everything possible had not been done to recover their loved ones’ bodies and give them reverent burial. That feeling no longer exists; it ceased to exist when the conditions under which the fighting was being carried out were realized.

But when peace came and the last ray of hope had been extinguished the void seemed deeper and the outlook more forlorn for those who had no grave to visit, no place where they could lay tokens of loving remembrance. … It was resolved that here at Ypres, where so many of the ‘Missing’ are known to have fallen, there should be erected a memorial worthy of them which should give expression to the nation’s gratitude for their sacrifice and its sympathy with those who mourned them. A memorial has been erected which, in its simple grandeur, fulfils this object, and now it can be said of each one in whose honour we are assembled here today: ‘He is not missing; he is here’."

- Field Marshal Lord Plumer

While those who fought this war are by and large sadly no longer with us, their successors are and still need our help.

Poppy appeal - England & Wales
Poppy appeal - Scotland
Royal Canadial Legion
Royal New Zealand Returned & Services Association
Returned & Services League of Australia

#2

Well, it’s is Veteran’s Day in the States, and Armistice Day elsewhere, so:

In Flanders Fields
By: Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918)
Canadian Army

IN FLANDERS FIELDS the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

#3

Remember at this time of year as at others, that in the world are men, and women who stand watch in the night, and are vigilant for our sakes, to keep us in the peace we all deserve. And should some choose to challenge them, stand ready to do rough battle with those who would seek to wrest our peace from us.
In the cold, and rain, snow and ice, the heat of summer, and gloom of winter they stand, and watch, pledged to give their lives for our sakes, people they do not even know.
Give a thought to their purpose, and dedication to the principles of justice, and freedom, and the rights of mankind. and that they have agreed to set aside their own pursuit of happiness, and potential to see that ours are unfettered. Raise your glass to them, Bless their names, and pray for them.

#4

All I can say is Amen.

#5

I didn’t have a poppy flower today, which made me very sad.

Amen TG, Amen.

#6


For you and the vets Churchill, god bless.

#7

Remembrance Day here in Canada.

I walked around Toronto today, uh yesterday, taking in some of the Remembrance Day sights:
http://wwii.ca/mediacat-38.html

#8

Am I right in thinking that the US don’t wear the poppy as a symbol?

http://www.poppy.org.uk/

http://www.canoe.ca/RemembranceDay/poppy.html

If you look closely, you’ll see me parading:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7718227.stm

#9

Hi all,
being a foreign citizen living in the UK for the past 11 years,I have seen many poppy appeals and remembrance Sundays to forge myself an opinion about the whole celebration.
My views might be seen as controversial but hear me out and tell me what you think.
I believe the whole Poppy appeal is a complete lack of respect to all British dead and veterans and I’ll explain:
Why conveniently having the ceremony and parade on the closest Sunday instead of having a Bank Holiday for it?Is it not important enough?Is it less important than the “Spring” Bank Holiday (whatever that is)?
Yesterday I asked my two children ,respectively 10 and 7 if they knew why they had a two minutes silence at school.The only close answer was that it was for the dead.Dead what?Not sure they replied,a timid “soldiers?” came out of the lips of my son.I then asked them why was it on the 11th of November and not another day and they were completely lost and also confused due to the ceremony on Sunday.
Every year I take this as a spit in the face to the dead soldiers that gave their life on a foreign soil(my country in this instance).
I understand that an extra BH is not very viable economically (the St George’s day shamble being a prime example of that) but instead of adding a new one for the 11/11,why not swap with the Spring BH or even better the August BH?
In France they do have a BH for the 11th of November and the 08th of May,to be fair I think it’s a bit too much and France should maybe change to the British example to have one day to commemorate all dead soldiers and veterans.But again France was occupied in both wars and maybe that’s why they want to have two separate days.
Next, it’s the British Legion and the poppy appeal.
A charity to look after wounded soldiers?Widows and orphans?Is is not the government job to look after our soldiers and their families?I would happily pay a bit more tax to make sure that members of the British forces are well looked after.
But a charity?Is the caring system for the Army that bad?Again it seems that soldiers in Britain are second class citizen and I truly believe this is a bloody shame.
As for the poppy itself,the idea is quite nice and the symbol is spot on but most(but not all) of the people wearing it are doing it for political correctness more than anything else.
But again it is a bit hypocrite to claim that we would show our support to the dead and wounded of the numerous war Britain fought either in the past or the present by pinning a poppy on our chest when the British government can’t even be asked to give a Bank Holiday on the 11th of November and dismiss the ceremony to a more convenient day.
I,personally don’t need to be reminded that my family was nearly wiped out in the first world war and that they became refugees in the second one.It is our duty to know how both wars affected our families and our countries in general and what do we owe to the people that fight for us.We shouldn’t have to rely on a piece of plastic to do that.
I hope nobody will get offended by this ,at the end of the day I am asking for more recognition than what we are doing at the moment and that hopefully a constructive discussion will happen as a result.

#10

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7713115.stm

#11

Sorry,your point is?
My mother’s family lives an hour drive from Verdun and the Douaumont ossuary(where the prince of Wales and president Sarkozy attended the French ceremony on the 11th),I have seen the many graves and the remnants of craters and trenches from my own eyes.
All this suffering and sacrifices and all the British soldiers have the Sunday closest to the 11th?Don’t the UK veterans deserve more?
More than a link next time please.

#12

No point at all. I posted the link in response to the theme of the thread title. A picture being worth a thousand words those pictures stimulate thought.

I too have seen the graves and have known many of the survivors. My grandfather was with the Lancashire Fusiliers, a unit which was anihilated in the first wave of attacks on the Somme - he happened to survive. In his old age he shared a room with me (I was a young boy at the time), so I have witnessed, first-hand, the long-term effects of the battle shock induced by life in the trenches.

Personally, I have took part in the Festival of Remembrance twice, I attend the opening of the Field of Remembrance at Westminster Abbey each year, and have paraded at the Cenotaph on Whitehall for the past twenty-one years, not to display myself as a veteran, but to honour those that were lost and represent those who are no longer able to parade. On Thursday 20 November, I will be joining the muster at Parliament Square to protest for Ghurka Justice. Whenever I show family and friends around London, I make a point of taking them to Westminster Abbey to see the Unkown Soldier’s Tomb. I happen to think I do my duty to the fallen and the veterans - so please don’t lecture me about remembrance, there’s a good chap.

#13

I’m not offended by your comments.

I understand your arguments and the underlying sentiments, although I don’t necessarily agree with your proposals for change, probably because I don’t think we can force later generations to recognise sacrifices by their forebears. What I understand now is rather different to what I understood as a fifteen year old in 1965 when our national day of commemoration meant little more to me than a televised parade through the city of honoured old codgers who had once been soldiers in wars which ended four or thirty one years before I was born.

We have a holiday to remember our war dead on Anzac Day, 25 April, each year http://www.awm.gov.au/commemoration/anzac/anzac_tradition.asp . It’s just a day off work for most people now, regardless of what it might have been in the past. A public holiday doesn’t make those unaware of sacrifices in war more aware of them.

I don’t buy or wear poppies or various other symbols and badges sold as part of war commemorations or sold by charities to benefit returned service people and their dependants, although I usually donate an amount equal to the price of the medium level symbols offered on such occasions. One thing that’s been noticeable over the past decade or two is the disappearance of old men and women of the WWII generation selling those symbols.

I do, however, observe two - not one which has become common lately - minutes of silence at 11 a.m. on 11/11, which is rare now. I remember about thirty years ago being in a large hardware store which announced the silence at 11 a.m., as was usual then, and being one of the very few who stood at attention for the two minutes while the migrants and a disappointing number of Anglo Aussies who should have known better continued with their shopping and yapping.

To my eternal discredit (although I’m not really too ashamed of it in my own way), about fifteen years ago a couple of Japanese clients were waiting outside my office when I arrived around 11 a.m. on 11/11 just as a fly past of RAAF planes came over as part of the commemoration ceremony. I made the uncomprehending but obedient Japanese stand in silence with me for a couple of minutes. It seemed like a good idea to me at the time.

#14

This is not a competition of who is doing his duty best.It is about if you think your country is doing the right thing for the men and women who fought for it.As you said your post has no point at all,so why post it?
Maybe if I was born in England,I would think my points in the OP are perfectly acceptable but I am not and think it’s not right.As for your condescending tone,it doesn’t help either I am afraid.I am genuinely curious to know how you guys perceive the Remembrance and if you think my points are relevant or not.
@Rising Sun:thank you very much for the input.What I suggested are exactly that,suggestions.I don’t think I have the solution to be honest and can only compare to what my country is doing during both commemorations and what the UK are doing on their side.Does the Anzac day happen on the 25th or the Sunday before that date.If anybody from Canada or any other commonwealth countries would like to compare,I would be very much appreciate it.Just for us to have a bigger picture.
Again I have the highest respect to all soldiers who fought and died on my country’s soil,hence my OP.

#15

This was aired by the BBC, yesterday. Fascinating, particularly the vallage which loves Australia:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00fkggq

#16

Member Kamehouse, Methinks thou dost protest too much,
This thread is to honor those who fought for all our freedoms, and a place for individual,and personal testimony to them, and their day. A reverent disposition is appreciated from all who post here.

#17

Actually my thread has been attached to the first thread(you may have noticed the different title to my posts) by a zealous moderator.
As for you dear Mr Tankgeezer, I suggest you read my posts in full and you will discover that my main complaints is about how the United Kingdom in my opinion is not doing enough for their veterans and those who died in battle.But not too worry,I believe the moderator made the same mistake than you did and then thought that both thread should be joined together.
How more reverent can I be when I point out the discrepancies of the British Government towards people they don’t honour enough?
Anyway I was hoping to have an adult discussion on a topic which is quite important to me but I guess I was in the wrong forum for that.
Thanks to Rising sun to have the courtesy to read my post in full and to give me an interesting feedback.

#18

Here in the U.S. Veterans Day is marked by bank and government holidays. You would think that Great Britain would mark the day with a federal/government holiday also for Remembrance Day instead of having such on a Sunday when most people are off of work or gov. offices are closed anyway. Especially with the horrendous losses of men in WW1 and WW2. But like RS said, most people just think of such things as a day off instead of reflecting on the meaning of the holiday.

#19

remember the men who died for there country.
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

#20

Well, I’m glad that someone of your posted age cares about remembering the fallen and the veterans. But, there is a thread already posted regarding this:http://ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8264

BTW, I’ve always liked that poem since I first read it as a youngster looking through WW1 photo books.