Best battle tank of WW2?

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#1

As suggested in the Best Fighter thread, I’ll start the best tank thread to (I’m on leave this week and I have nothing better to do). So, I need nominations please people. What tanks do you desperately want to see included? The obvious ones will already be on the list, so I don’t need 40 people nominating the Tiger, Panther or T-34. Any of the lesser known tanks that you really feel should be on the list?

editted to add - the tanks must have seen combat service between 1939 and 1945, so no nominating conceptual designs like the Maus or the Ratte

#2

And note that only TANKS are required, not tank destroyers or propelled guns!!

Edited: Or at least I suppose so! :wink:

#3

Well ponted out Dani - tanks only, not tank destroyers, self propelled guns or armoured prime movers!

#4

It is a bit different than on Fighters.
Here we have: light, medium and heavy tanks.
We should decide what we’ll do, a single category or 3 categories and also to specify the conditions for a tank to be considered light (for instance) due the fact that Americans, Russians, Germans etc, have their own criteria.

#5

We could go for battle tanks in this one Dani - designed to actually fight other tanks rather than light tanks designed for recce rather than combat. Seems the best distinction to me.

#6

Ok heres a few more then.

Sherman Firefly

Cromwell

Churchill

Matilda

PzIII special

PzIV (J)

Stuart

Lee/Grant

KV 1/KV-85

Comet

US Sherman 76

Pershing

JS 1/2

and the Valentine, all marks.

#7

I think that we should add tanks belonging to other countries as well (except USA, USSR, Germany and UK pointed so far).

#8

Trouble with lesser tanks is that they didnt see much service or were very poor.

We could add the Italian ones, Hungarian and Romanian. The Japanese didnt have decent ones.

Who else had them (home bult) The Czechs I suppose with the 38(T).

#9

Romania have only tank destroyers developed. As tanks T3 and T4 references were in fact PzIII and PzIV renamed.

What about France?

#10

From France, you’re looking at the Renault R35, Hochkiss H35, Char B1-bis and SOMUA S-35

#11

The nominations up to now are:

Germany:
Pzkpw III
Pzkpw IV
Pzkpw V Panther
Pzkpw VI Tiger
Pzkpw VI Tiger II

Italy:
Fiat M13/40
Fiat M15/42

Japan:
Type 97

France:
SOMUA S-35
Char B1-bis

UK:
Crusader
Cromwell
Matilda
Valentine
Churchill
Sherman Firefly
Comet

USA:
M3
M4 Sherman
M26 Perishing

USSR:
BT-7
T-34
KV-1
JS-2

Anyone got anymore they want added? I’ll leave the nominations open for about 24 hours from now.

#12

Since there were no more nominations, I’ve sorted the first round out. Because there wasn’t a decent number, I’ve had to do a ‘qualifying round’ to even the numbers up.

Bye to the second round:
Pzkpw V Panther
Pzkpw VI Tiger
Pzkpw VI Tiger II
Sherman Firefly
Comet
M26 Perishing
T-34
JS-2

First Round:
Churchill v Fiat M15/42
Pzkpw III v Valentine
Pzkpw IV v M4 Sherman
Matilda v Type 97
KV-1 v M3
Cromwell v SOMUA S-35
BT-7 v Crusader
Fiat M13/40 v Char B1-bis

I’ll do the first one tomorrow morning (busy watching Liverpool play at the minute). Same detail as with the fighters - make a reason for your choice of better tank, one line answers are not acceptable. First one will start in the morning.

#13

Good stuff BDL, interesting if disparite match-ups, I look forward to the first one.

#14

They should even up after the first round - there was some god awful tanks around in 1939/40/41, wasn’t there.

#15

I agree, you just have to look at the Panzer 1 or T-26. Made of cardboard both of them.

#16

Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger. It was feared Allied Shermans, but because of it’s low production rating, wasn’t enough to seriously effect the outcome of the war, like the Russian T-34.

#17

Interesting little piece of info I learned recently: The T-34’s frontal armor was so strong, that the tank commanders developed many unorthodox tactics, such as ramming a German Tiger full on to disable it. 8) . Did anyone else know that? It was news to me.

#18

yeah right! They would have to get in close then?

Might have happened in certain situations, like the close battle at Kursk, but every day, no way. Tanks arent there to ram other tanks mate. In an ideal situation your tank isnt there to take on other tanks either.

#19

Well I don’t know for sure, I’m trusting the Military Channel on that one :?

#20

While the frontal Armour, being sloped, was good on the T-34, in all Models, it was however vulnerable at range to many German Tanks.

The first mark of German Tank to be able to fight the T-34 was the Panzer IV F2, the first long barrel 75 on a German tank. At about the same time the same gun was fitted to the Stug. Both guns could penetrate a T-34 at about 1400-2000 meters. The Germans also had superior optics to the Soviets, and indeed the other allies.

The Germans also had a Radio in every Tank while the Soviets didnt. The Germans could fight buttoned more effectively in the early years as opposed to a T-34 because the early T-34 didnt have a cupola and the crew would have to button to fight. This was excaserbated by the fact that the T-34 had a 4 man crew at the time (41-43) and the commander was also the gunner. So a Tank platoon leader had to try and signal his other tanks whislt having a very narrow view and also to try and choose a target. You will agree that this is very ineficient.

So ramming a German Tank, may have been a good idea, but you would have to get past the long range gunnery, the shorter range AT guns, the AT infantry and finally the better handled German armour.

I dont think that apart from Kursk, where the battle and dust was so intense that the ranges came down significantly that the average Soviet tank crew realistically thought their best option was to try to get in for a Ram.

In sum, dont believe all you see on TV.

Im now spoilng my voting for various Tanks in the debate so will shut up!