Who do you think is the bravest army. Lets face it, all of the armys had their moments in WW2. Who do you think has the most of the moments. So cast a vote on the pole. Leave a message too.
I don’t like this poll for two reasons, the first one being it’s participants are very narrow. What about the armies of the ‘minor’ nations, many of whom could lay claim to the title.
But most importantly I can see this thread potentially splitting along nationalist lines and becoming a point scoring slanging match, where old prejudices, hatreds and propaganda rule.
Sorry for my negative comments and please do not think I am criticizing you personally GermanSoldier.
Regards Digger.
The Swiss army
I agree with Digger. Who wrote: “But most importantly I can see this thread potentially splitting along nationalist lines and becoming a point scoring slanging match, where old prejudices, hatreds and propaganda rule.”
Why would you even want to try to classify one army as being braver than another? If it wasn’t for all of the allied countries working and fighting together for a common goal, we’d be a pretty miserable bunch of people today. In any army, from any country, you are going to have some individuals who are brave and some who are cowards. But they should all be given credit for simply being there to fight. Personaly, I’m going to concentrate on being grateful and appreciative to everyone, from every country, civilian or military who helped win the war. I don’t even want to imagine what the alternate ending would have been like. End of patriotric speech!
I’m not even sure we could come up with a universal definition of bravery, I’d rather see a thread on that.
Agree with everybody who commented this thread.
This is pointless vote for the “Bravest army” at all
Another way if we discuss the bravest units or soldiers in battles in WW2.
I have the many examples of bravest stories. For instance i heared the some german soldiers continie to fight in Stalingrad in jenuary 1943 ( when the battle come to the finish) when they had only one-two non-frost-bitten finger on the right hand(while they still could to shoot).
Another interesting matter IMHO was the motives of bravery in the war: desperation , madness or the conscious self-sacrifice of its life. This is very different reasons on my mind.
I suggest to begin the thread like “Was it bravest or not?”
Cheers.
Grete idea for a thread, Chevan. Do it, please.
Or indeed in some cases the fact that they had say the Einsatzgruppen waiting just behind them to shoot/hang the first few people to retreat.
Incidentally, my vote goes to the Swedes…
I once read that the German soldiers in WWI, following the much vaunted Prussian military tradition of discipline and ferociousness, had an interesting line of thinking --which was that is was completely unacceptable to retreat from a British, Russian or French infantry attacks, even if facing a superior force (within reason, as of course they were forced to ultimately retreat against overwhelming forces). Indeed, I would think most Englishmen and Frenchmen would have great respect for the bravery and competence of the German soldier of WWI.
However, if they were attacked by armored forces, that was a different question all together. It was considered acceptable for German soldiers (themselves, not the high command) to run from a cluster of oncoming tanks supported by infantry, because they had few effective anti-tank weapons initially, and no real tanks, they did not consider themselves ‘cowards’ for this at all.
I think the lesson in this is that a good deal of courage’s seeming counterpoint: cowardice, is actually a measure of a soldiers confidence in the competence of his commanders, his training, and in his/her weapons. If soldiers feel belittled or betrayed, I think they are far more likely given to panic and to surrender or quit. I think the poorly led Italian Army, and the French Army saddled with a defeatist, idiotic high command adhering to outmoded ideas during the Battle for France, are good examples of this. Soldiers of both armies fought extremely courageously in different circumstances (the Free French were notoriously brutal and fearless in combat once reequipped and retrained, and the Italians that continued to fight on the Axis side after the fall of Mussolini were reequipped with mostly German equipment, and put under a German command, they did pretty well and most allied soldiers could not tell the difference between they or German units…)
I do not think any one nationality has a monopoly of courage or bravery…
And what about the Swiss Army?
Ha! Already been beaten to it.
The Turks are pretty tough…
Just don’t please overestimate the role of Einsatzgruppen in the German army.
I didn’t heared about penalty battalions in the Stalingrad.
Anyway the Germans army was most disciplined in WW2. And according the most historians which i readed Germans was a strongest army in the WW2. ( in comparition with others axis armies )
Cheers.
Yer i don’t hear about bravery of italians but French SS brigade “Sharlemane” ruined a lot of blood for the Read Army in Berlin. Those ‘french guys’ were obsessed of nazi ideas.
In fact that there were about 20 000 frenchs who perished for Resistence and about 3 times more for Reich.
I do not think any one nationality has a monopoly of courage or bravery…
Yes Nick this must be first begining in your post.
Cheers.
I didn’t only have the Einsatzgruppen in mind - the Red Army had similar units (NKVD?) whose job it was to shoot those soldiers who retreated. It was by no means universal, and AIUI was only used rarely, but in both cases it existed.
Nor was it unique to WW2 - Frederick the Great trained his army on the principle that it should be more afraid of it’s own officers than the enemy, while during the Napoleonic wars IIRC British troops often had their sergeants standing behind them to shoot the first man to retreat.
Bravery is a multi-faceted thing, supported by many other factors - fear of both the enemy and the consequences of retreat, leadership (good or bad), propaganda, weapons and equipment, esprit de corps, religion etc. Thus, to state that any particular nation was unusually brave is nonsense - more likely they had superior leadership (the Germans in both world wars were notable for this), better equipment (coalition soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan), propaganda (Germans and Russians in WW2 - in the Russian case massively assisted by the atrocities the Germans committed in Russia, because the Propaganda was largely true and the troops knew it), etc. Only if some measure of the displayed bravery of every single soldier on all sides were taken, the above factors allowed for, etc. could some measure of the “Bravest Army” be taken statistically. That didn’t happen so the topic is nonsensical.
I believe the thread is a dead duck for similar reasons as the previous posters, however while Redcoat and Nickdfresh both mentioned the Swiss in a tongue in cheek manner, they had a number of contacts with the German forces and won each one.
The Swiss Air Force in particular met the Luftwaffe on several occasions and returned victorious from them all.
Even a cursory glance at the history of Switzerland shows that their troops have always been a force to be reckoned with.
I was being a bit tongue and cheek. But only half so. I’m unaware of the firefights between the Swiss and Germans, but I know of Hitler and his henchmen being intimidated by the Swiss fortresses and mountainous terrain defended by well trained Swiss citizens…